45thdiv | 19 Jul 2016 3:23 p.m. PST |
I was reading Walt Ohara's post on the convention and toward the middle of all the comments for the thread a comment was made that they keep hearing folks ask where all the showcase stand out games went to. I only went on a day trip for Saturday. There were 2 games that fit into this category outside of the WI game in the dealer hall. Pne was a great looking bolt action game on a large table. It must have been run several times as it would have been a headache to have to take down and reset for the next day. The other game was in one of the ballrooms. Well done terrain, but no troops. There were some nice Napoleonic figures on side board and I am sure the game completely set up looked great. I find the ball room games to be private club games. They are also away from the noise of the main convention. Sometimes I forget they are there. The lighting in the rooms are also very dim. Bob Giglio has stopped doing the mega games he did many years ago. His game for WI in the dealer hall was about half his normal size games. A few years back there was a great ACW game complete with river gunboats and such. I too use to run huge games. Large 1/6th scale ww2 battles, huge 60mm French and Indian wars and several 28mm early Sudan games. My last game was at Historicon 2008, with the rescue of the embasy in Berber by Egyptian troops with gunboats. 6 x 15' table and loads of buildings to make up the city. A few things made me stop. My health is not what it was and I just can't do the marathon 3 to 4 games a day for players. It's hard for me to hear on the hall. It is also a lot of time and money to invest in these games to ensure the players have a well tested scenario. The last game in 2008 finished early becasue the players picked up the rules so quickly. I was ready to end the game and they asked if they could keep playing until the four hours was up. They still had to get a lot of Egyptian troops back on the gun boats, even though the objective was the embassy staff. They had done that. It was fun to sit back and watch these guys continue to have fun with a scenario I designed and rules I had written. It was a great game to end my mega games at the conventions with. Besides health issues, my son is into scouting so a lot of time is spent with that. I hope he will migrate back to gaming soon. My last one is just a pet peeve. I provide thousands of dollars worth of toys for 8 players to play for 4 hours a game, and I run two or three games at a convention. Yet I have to pay for the privilege of bringing my stuff and running games for folks. Unless I become a member of HMGS, I do not get my entrance fee for the convention back. I attend one convention a year, so that is really not a great value for me. So, I just attend one day, visit friends and buy toys. If all GMs, no matter if they were a member or not, got free admission into the convention, I could see my running another game again. Any others out there want to tell why they stopped? Matthew |
Jamesonsafari | 19 Jul 2016 6:42 p.m. PST |
I think it's appalling that HMGSE charges GMs admission considering the preparation and logistics required to get troops and terrain to the convention. Plus the risks of letting strangers play with your toys and even risk of damage during travel. If the con organisers are worried about scammers registering as a GM, getting in free and then either cancelling or running a really crap looking game you could jury the entries to prescreen or reimburse GMs who put decent games. |
kayjay | 19 Jul 2016 6:48 p.m. PST |
You didn't see Austerlitz? Was huge. Charge of the LT Brigade ? Pete Panzeri was running something on a 6 by 24 as well. And the huge Close Action game over in the Homewood? |
TSD101 | 19 Jul 2016 7:28 p.m. PST |
I think it's appalling that HMGSE charges GMs admission They don't if you're a member. |
Doctor X | 19 Jul 2016 8:12 p.m. PST |
That doesn't sound like a good incentive to encourage people to bring games to play. Games attract multiple players who pay to get in and spend money at your con. |
Brad Jenison | 19 Jul 2016 8:44 p.m. PST |
The Siege of Mai Dun castle looked like a show piece game from the photographs that have been posted. Others have been brought up in this topic. Does not seem to be a lack of quality games from what has been written by others. |
iPaint | 19 Jul 2016 8:57 p.m. PST |
They don't if you're a member. And you make the PEL deadline…which is months in advance and possibly hard to determine if GMs are even going to attend. I paid HMGS member admission to run a 4 hour game for 6 people, and I packed it all into a few suitcases and flew it out from Colorado to boot, so it needed to be travel friendly. HMGS needs to incentivize hosting a game a bit more, because it honestly is a lot of work – the worst thing you want as a GM is to run a bad game. Getting the con to a more sound-friendly location would help too. Fredericksburg is nice and big but it's so hard to hear anything in such an open area once everyone's there. ~iPaint |
Bosco05 | 20 Jul 2016 4:00 a.m. PST |
I saw a number of very impressive games at Historicon 2016 and think this year was better than the previous few. Perhaps I'm biased since I put on what was a "big game" for me with my "Grapeshot on the Chesapeake, with a hint of garlic" game – 20x6" table, close to 2,000 minis and 28mm scale ships. From an incentive perspective waiving all or part of the $50.00 USD convention fee (that's the non-member price) really wouldn't change my desire to host a game – I have a lot more than $50 USD invested in my toys and terrain. I like running games more than playing in them. I do think HMGS can do a lot more to create more community within the GM group as we're a form of volunteers that help put on a small part of the con. For the past three years I've won a PEL award, for which I'm very grateful but I don't know what it means. Somas guys in blue hats come up take my picture and nothing seems to happen afterwords. I have no idea why I won or what I could do to better improve my players experiences from the judges perspective. One thing HMGS could consider is adding a social event for returning GMs on Wed or Thursday night so we can meet each other and exchange ideas – while I'm a good GM, I'm nowhere near the best and theres a lot I could learn on how to better stage and manage a gaming experience. Plus given the amount of stuff we have to transport it would be helpful to meet other GM's in my area to see if we could coordinate transport (rent a u-haul together etc). I'd gladly give up my discount for entry if HMGS sponsored such an event and provided beer / snacks. I would like to see HMGS offer some onsite locked storage for mini's – I left mine out and there wasn't a problem (other than me getting nervous) and having an office where I could cart my mini's over to store overnight would be very helpful. |
WaltOHara | 20 Jul 2016 6:36 a.m. PST |
Remember the guy who used to run a game called SUMO ARENA at the bar in the Lancaster Host? It was a board game more or less, about Sumo wrestling. With a couple of Sumo tokens and a numbered "sumo rink" board to regulate movement. Yeah, that guy. He got in free, for running *that* game. It might have been one of those things that was hilarious after a few beers but it hardly qualified as being a miniatures game in my mind. Still he managed to pass muster every year, so who am I to judge? My point being? I think the universal free GM badge will encourage more "minimal effort" GMs than a few superior "showcase" GMs. Honest, I don't have a poor opinion of humanity, really. But I don't think you'll experience the net gain of magnificent eye candy that you are predicting with an all GMs free policy. Why? I think Bosco nailed it-- most GMs have spent a hell of a lot more than the fifty bucks they'd save to put on a gigantic game (in pewter and other less tangible factors, like time). They WANT this effort to be seen. I think most GMs (myself too, though I am no artist) do it for the love of doing it, and trying to get a bargain for it is very much a secondary consideration. Walt |
45thdiv | 20 Jul 2016 8:21 a.m. PST |
My point was not so much the free entry into the show, as everyone has said, we spend more money in time, terrain and figures than 50 dollars. It was the attitude of the change in policy. If your not a member, then really you are not as welcome to run your games here as members are. It's been about 6 years since the change was made. Life and work has kept me busy, so I have not been to many conventions, but really? That little is thought of the non member GM? Matthew |
historygamer | 20 Jul 2016 8:30 a.m. PST |
Perhaps HMGS needs to do a better job of overseeing the games run at their conventions. For many years I ran registered games. Then I had so many friends showing up I quit running registered games and just put on pick up games. I am back to running registered games now. Both are enjoyable, but I do appreciate the free admission when running registered games. It is indeed a pitance compared to the investment of time and money sitting on the table, but I appreciate it. The reimbursement system was used for many years and it was a mess. Too much extra bookkeeping, high risk of fraud if cash was used, too complicated, often broke down creating more hard feelings than it solved. I'll be putting on a mix of pick up and registered games at FI. PELA winner FI '15 and CW '16. |
WaltOHara | 20 Jul 2016 9:01 a.m. PST |
I kind of doubt the equation works out as "that little" is thought of anybody. More like they are trying to incentivize people to become members. In your case, you saw through HMGS's Machiavellian scheme. |
Double G | 20 Jul 2016 9:27 a.m. PST |
That more than counts at a showpiece game in my book, outstanding set up, presentation and terrain. Makes people WANT to use your scenario books and rules, very well done, kudos……………. |
WaltOHara | 20 Jul 2016 10:32 a.m. PST |
You should have seen the giant Roman game that ran Thursday night in Club Room A. it was astonishing. That's what I would call a showcase. |
historygamer | 20 Jul 2016 11:00 a.m. PST |
Looking at the pictures posted here on TMP, there seemed to be quite a number of very high level games at Hcon. |
historygamer | 20 Jul 2016 11:08 a.m. PST |
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surdu2005 | 20 Jul 2016 11:23 a.m. PST |
I saw MANY attractive games at Historicon this year (as well as other recent conventions, such as Cold Wars and Nashcon). At Cold Wars there was some talk of the aesthetics of games at US shows being somehow sub-par compared to international shows. I recently attend an excellent, well-run show in the UK, where I was treated well, saw many terrific games, and had a tremendous time. See bucksurdu.com/blog/?p=4987. I don't see that the quality of the games is very different. I saw several "mega games," which I'll define as ten or more players. In fact there seemed to be many of these in different historical periods, types, and scales on offer at Historicon. I saw a lot of games in which players were whooping, hollering, and smiling. This is probably more important than the size or spectacular nature of the table. In the HAWKs room we frequently run at least one 12-player game. We didn't this year, but Eric ran a 10-player game on Sunday morning! I think the system is fine the way it is. (I ran five games at Historicon, and generally run five or more games at all of the East shows.) Pre-registered game masters who are members get free admission. 45thDivision, I understand your consternation about becoming a member if you only attend one convention a year, but I don't not agree with your position. If you attend two or more, the membership pays for itself in either discounted admission or free admission (as a GM). HMGS has experimented with various schemes over the years: t-shirts, free admission, reimbursement, etc.. The current mechanism is fine. Many other conventions don't provide free admission to GMs; although, some provide reduced admission. I don't think any of us run games because we are (partially) compensated for the effort. We do it because we enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it. If you do enjoy it, the admission fee shouldn't make a different. The free admission is not meant to be compensation as much as a small "thank you" from the convention director. I'm not sure what's broken that folks are trying to fix with this thread. Buck Surdu |
historygamer | 20 Jul 2016 12:29 p.m. PST |
If someone is trying to blame the decline in attendance on the quality of games being offered then I would say they are barking up the wrong tree. |
Colonel Bill | 20 Jul 2016 12:59 p.m. PST |
I agree, with Buck as well. Colonel Bill |
Ultima Thule | 20 Jul 2016 1:48 p.m. PST |
Sorry my Siege of Mai Dun game did not qualify as a "showcase" game. I can assure you that it was not from a lack of effort. We did not win any "awards" but at this point I really do not know what the awards people are looking for. So I try to please myself and the people that play my games. I was approached by Wargames Illustrated to write an article about the construction and playing of the game at Historicon. Guess I will have to decline because it is not a showcase game! |
Lee Brilleaux | 20 Jul 2016 1:48 p.m. PST |
I have to say that my own willingness to run the multi-table. loadsa-scenery games for 20-40 people I used to run a few years ago has waned. It's nothing to do with whether I get in for free (although it would be nice if I didn't have to search with some diligence to find the deadlines for that, months before the con). It's to do with basic logistics. I'm willing to load up my vehicle with stuff at my house. I'll drive it to the con. But my enthusiasm for schlepping box upon box, terrain piece upon terrain piece, from wherever I'm able to park the van to the room I'm scheduled to present the game in is not what it used to be. So, lately, I've gone for stuff I can carry in one or two trips at most. Because I'm not getting any younger, and I don't have any elves. |
IronMarshal | 20 Jul 2016 2:05 p.m. PST |
The Austerlitz game was definitely a "Show Piece." I am amazed and gratified that people go through the trouble they do to create aesthetically beautiful game tables for us to play on. The "Grape Shot on the Chesapeake" game was beautiful too as was Mai Dun the Charge of the Light Brigade was an awesome sized game as was Pete Panzeri's game. Gonzalvo, Peter Anderson always has beautiful 28mm Napoleonic games (and did this time as well). There was a nice WWII game in 28mm that was on all weekend and many others (Joe Schwartz for one). I really appreciate all the effort put into these. Unfortunately, Uncle Duke is no longer able to put on his massive and impressive games. Maybe that is what you are missing. Or maybe something like the Siege of Malta from the Host days or taht Masssive Pirate Game from a year or two ago. |
45thdiv | 20 Jul 2016 6:09 p.m. PST |
"The free admission is not meant to be compensation as much as a small "thank you" from the convention director." Excellent point Buck. A small thank you to HMGS members only who run games. It's not from the convention director, but from HMGS direction. To those who are not members……. I was only there for Saturday and I saw a lot of nice looking games, but most for 4 to 6 players. Not like the 12 to 20 players at a time like those run in early 2000. And not tucked away in some ballroom way from the masses, but out in front of the main gaming location. Yes, there are, based on the photos coming in, many fantastic looking games still being run, and it's great to see that. I just wish they were spead out more so that folks could see them and possibly play in them. |
historygamer | 20 Jul 2016 6:34 p.m. PST |
"We did not win any "awards" but at this point I really do not know what the awards people are looking for." I used to serve as a GM judge a good bit. The judges (they try to have two or three to a shift) are given a criteria sheet to go by for judging. Games are judged against other games during their time period of the day. The judges quietly walk around and look at all the games during their shift – which can cover two or more hours. The games have to be registered and in the program booklet. Pick up games do not qualify. Games sponsored by vendors do not usually qualify (as they have way more resources than your average GM or club). Oddly enough, in any given shift it usually only comes down to handful of games for consideration. It is not uncommon for two really good looking games to compete – but only one can win. The judges look at the terrain, troops, and to see if the players seem to be enjoying themselves. Often when the games are narrowed down to a handful the judges may go and look again. The judges will then compare notes and work out their rankings for that shift and award the winner. They often take pictures of the game and GM (and sometimes the players or people who helped the GM). I have no idea what becomes of those photos, or if the winners are ever announced in the newsletter, etc. |
civildisobedience | 20 Jul 2016 8:16 p.m. PST |
I think the games were great. That said, I think HMGS should lower the restrictions and let everyone who runs a game, member or not, registered by the early deadline or not, in for free. It's a lot of work running a game…and a LOT of work running a good one. |