Tango01 | 16 Jul 2016 11:42 a.m. PST |
"As is all too well known now, GW in their wisdom decided to take a whole new view to their popular fantasy battle game; Warhammer… and wholesale replaced it with an entirely new concept for the fantasy game, with Warhammer – Age of Sigmar! This caused chaos quite literally in the hordes of fantasy players the world over… which caused varied reactions, and to the extremes of one player publicly burning his entire fantasy collection on Youtube! (Totally bonkers if you asked me – should have sold them!) As for myself I looked on in a state of bemusement as the change didn't affect me in the slightest… I had drifted away from playing Warhammer and 40K many many years ago… being content to continue to play their Lord of the Rings/Hobbit SBG game, being a big Tolkien fan, and other non-GW games… recently seeing me take to Bolt Action with great enthusiasm…" Full text here scottswargaming.blogspot.com.ar Amicalement Armand |
Mithmee | 16 Jul 2016 6:44 p.m. PST |
Yes, and in a few short weeks we will have their earning report and will see if killing off WFB was a good thing. |
Pictors Studio | 16 Jul 2016 9:58 p.m. PST |
We already have the preliminary report. Revenue is up this year over last. |
Puster | 17 Jul 2016 11:29 a.m. PST |
> Revenue is up this year over last. Was not the reason for that an influx of revenues for the "Total War – Warhammer"? Ironically the very IP they dropped. |
VVV reply | 18 Jul 2016 12:01 a.m. PST |
A policy designed to sell more figures. |
maverick2909 | 18 Jul 2016 10:20 a.m. PST |
>We already have the preliminary report. Revenue is up this year over last. As in, revenue for WF:AoS is up, or revenue is up for the entire company? Those are two completely different things and its a little facetious of you to state that if the case is the later. |
Pictors Studio | 18 Jul 2016 9:59 p.m. PST |
I'm not sure that facetious means what you think it means. Maybe you mean sophistic? Either way, I don't know the reason. It was a preliminary report that was released. I only know that revenue went up. Whatever the details it means that the company is making decisions that have been good for it. I guess we have yet to see the details and see if sales have increased or revenue is up from other sources. But killing off WHFB, not that I agree that is what they did or even could do, obviously didn't harm the company dramatically. It is possible that it decreased revenue but from what stores have told me their WHFB sales weren't great anyway. |
maverick2909 | 19 Jul 2016 5:02 a.m. PST |
>Maybe you mean sophistic? You're right, I didn't mean facetious, I meant dishonest. Certainly not sophistic! Just because the company was making money overall doesn't mean WF:AoS is doing well. Not that I am arguing they are making bad moves, I think Warhammer: Total War was a great idea. Sadly, I have an itch that when they do report earnings they will lump any revenue gained from Total War into a generalized "Warhammer Fantasy" category and thus we will never know just how terrible AoS is doing. Entertain me for a second, how exactly did they not kill off the old WFB universe? And see, here I told myself I wasn't going to argue with you because it's almost utterly useless. I can see the merits in what they were trying to do with AoS, I even admit the models look cool and that skirmish system is what some want. However I also realize they slighted a lot of their player base by doing so, and I believe they could have both made a skirmish rules system and a rank and file system new edition in the old world to appease everyone. I have read your opinion about the subject quite a bit over the past few months on here. I never really felt the need to comment, but I just feel you can't see more than 2 feet in front of yourself when it comes to AoS (like many in the opposite camp on the issue) and it makes me sad. |
Pictors Studio | 19 Jul 2016 8:36 a.m. PST |
You can't really kill a game system. Only the players can do that. As I understand it, some of the players are continuing on with 9th age. I'll probably keep playing 6th edition as I have since it came out, although rarely. AoS didn't kill WHFB any more than 7th edition killed 6th. I think AoS is great. It is a high magic, narrative oriented game. I don't think of myself as some GW fan-boy, I haven't played any new version of their games in almost 10 years. Prior to the Betrayal At Calth set coming out I hadn't played 40K more than 5 times in about 10 years. I understand that GW probably pissed a lot of people off when they changed WHFB from the points driven tournament set it had become to the more fluid story-based game it is now. They could certainly have done the same thing in the Old World. However I think that the new Age of Sigmar universe offers a lot that the Old World can't. The Old World was very Euro-centric (obviously) and might not appeal to gamers from different cultures readily. AoS retains much of the fantasy elements but has more leeway in how you can interpret this. I've run games with Zulus in them, Byzantines in them and if my Chinese were single based and there were more of them I'd probably have a go at them with it too. The new lore allows for much more fantastic stuff to go on while allowing for pretty mundane stuff to happen too. But it certainly has its limitations. It is not a tournament system. It won't allow people to have really well matched pick up games by just comparing armies. It will allow them to have well matched scenario pick up games with a small bit of thought. It is like all the hate for GW. They are a business making economic decisions based on what seems to be most profitable for the company, which is their responsibility. Nothing (except re-releasing Space Hulk) they have done in the last 10 years has really resonated with me. They have put out a couple of figs that I've liked in that time. But I really like AoS and I feel like a lot of the bad press it has received has been from people that have never played it or don't understand it. But it is exactly what a lot of people have been calling for: free rules, cheaper minis, lower starting cost and on and on. GW seems to have responded to all of that. The Start Collecting boxes are cheaper when compared to similar sets from any of the other companies producing high quality fantasy figures. |
maverick2909 | 19 Jul 2016 12:35 p.m. PST |
I am pretty new to Warhammer in general, I played historicals for years but when a buddy offered to sell me an Empire army it was too good to pass up, that was about two years ago. Trust me, I get where you are coming from, I think AoS has its own appeal, it reminds me of Diablo the computer game which I really like. I just wish they would have kept the original world and made a rules set for both a skirmish type game and the rank and file type game. TBH I don't know anyone who has called for free rules, but then again I only know my player base of 8-10 guys. We actually preffered the expensive rulebooks with all the fluff, it added a lot to the lore and your army which was fun, plus the illustrations were really well done. I guess it's hard for me to try and want a lower starting cost as I am well employed and while the cost is bigger than some other hobbies, it isn't insurmountable by any means. |
Pictors Studio | 19 Jul 2016 1:24 p.m. PST |
A lot of people said the codexes were necessary and were too expensive and too frequently updated. They objected to paying $20 USD every 4 or so years for a new army book. When GW hiked the price on them to $50 USD and made them hardbacks the complaining increased in intensity. The lists are free now. As far as the Old World goes I wouldn't be surprised if GW wasn't looking at the huge potential markets in China and India and wasn't developing a world that might be less Euro-centric to appeal to them. Although it isn't like you can't play AoS in the Old World. All the armies rules are still there and still free. If you play historicals how different is it? I must confess to that being the most baffling aspect of people being upset about AoS. They finally put out 30K figures and everyone loves it, but tell people that the Old World got blown up and they get all bent out of shape. So people love Historical 40K but hate historical WHFB? Weird. |
Mithmee | 19 Jul 2016 5:05 p.m. PST |
GW did kill off WFB and is in the process of killing off the old miniature lines as well. Oh and the reason why they killed it off? They could not Trademark: Empire Orcs Goblins High Elf/High Elves Wood Elf/Wood Elves Dwarf/Dwarves Demon/Demons The decision to kill off WFB came from when they got their asses handed to them in the Chapterhouse Lawsuit. They are not making anymore rules or miniatures for it, so yes they kill it. Oh and Editions 4-7 are when WFB starting going downhill. But that is due to GW getting rid of the individuals who could actually write rules. |
Mithmee | 19 Jul 2016 5:09 p.m. PST |
Oh and yes the lists are free now. But they really do suck for a standard WFB rank & file game. Several units have become disgusting due to these new free rules. Plus there are no points or any other sort of limits. |
Pictors Studio | 20 Jul 2016 7:27 p.m. PST |
That can't be the reason they killed it off. From your own list they have kept and are producing half of the named races so far. They could certainly have just as easily renamed them in WHFB. They can't kill off WHFB, only you can do that. If you are so much of a GW drone that you can't imagine playing the game without their sanction then I guess you could say they told you to kill it and you are dutifully following their instructions. The free lists are not intended for a standard rank and file game of anything. That is like trying to put your lawnmower wheel on your car. I'm not aware of any units becoming disgusting because of the new free rules. I have Empire, High Elves, Dwarfs, Brettonians, lots of Chaos and the odd orc or two and haven't noticed any kind of smell or anything about them. As a matter of fact when I went down to check on my Empire figures when the new rules came out they were exactly the same as the last time I gamed with them under 6th edition. They hadn't changed at all. I haven't tried it since Age of Sigmar came out, but I bet I could still play 6th edition with them and nothing in the space-time continuum would be destroyed. Points are a pretty useless way of creating balance unless you are playing a game with the same army lists on tables that are symmetrical. Otherwise they just break down because most armies don't perform the same against other armies. If you feel like you need limits on your gaming it seems more like a personal problem than one with the game. Perhaps you could try yoga or meditation and center yourself and after that you could just concentrate on putting together some interesting scenarios to play and having fun |
Mithmee | 20 Jul 2016 11:19 p.m. PST |
producing half of the named races so far. No they are not. Elves are now Sylvaneth Dwarves are now Fyreslayers Orcs are now Greenskins, Ironjawz, Bonesplitterx Goblins are now Grotz Empire has been replaced with Fantasy Space Marines |
Pictors Studio | 21 Jul 2016 5:23 a.m. PST |
So they are still producing them. Are you saying you can't understand what they are because the name changed? How do you relate to women that get married and then take their husband's name? Do think that they cease to exist? |
HUBCommish | 21 Jul 2016 5:30 p.m. PST |
Pictors, why bother to argue with that guy? It's like arguing with a poor AI that's been programmed with only a handful of data points. |
Mithmee | 21 Jul 2016 10:01 p.m. PST |
Maybe but they are all correct data points. Plus they are more than a handful. GW has a very long history of hosing over it customers. |
Pictors Studio | 21 Jul 2016 11:46 p.m. PST |
HUBCommish, Lately I've been doing a lot of editing stuff: my novel, my friend's paper for his fellowship in Maternal Fetal Medicine and looking over some other research papers on organ donation related stuff. It is sort of like when you go to the gym and lift, it is nice to have a cool down exercise when you are done with the heavy work out. And now on to it: "Maybe but they are all correct data points." They have been proven wrong again and again. Like above, you claim that they aren't producing a bunch of models and yet they are and it turns out you were just totally confused by the name change. And the point about how they suck for a rank and file game when they were not intended for a rank and file game. Of course they do. The stats suck for baseball too. I still want to know the answer to my question about married women. Do they cease to exist when they take a different surname? How about popes? Is a pope a completely different person when they take a new name? |
Bob Runnicles | 10 Aug 2016 1:54 p.m. PST |
Gawd where to begin lol. >Elves are now Sylvaneth Wrong. Tree spirits are now Sylvaneth. Not an elf among them. > Dwarves are now Fyreslayers Wrong. That's just one faction; basically expanded slayers. >Empire has been replaced with Fantasy Space Marines Wrong. The Empire still exist, you can still buy their figures, they are just referred to as the Free Peoples now. Sigmarines are just a new addition. |
Bob Runnicles | 10 Aug 2016 1:57 p.m. PST |
"We already have the preliminary report. Revenue is up this year over last." From what I've heard and read, AoS this year outsold WFB over the last year. If anything took a hit it was 40K. |
Centurio Prime | 10 Aug 2016 3:26 p.m. PST |
Yes, Yes…. Let the Hate flow through you! |
Centurio Prime | 10 Aug 2016 3:32 p.m. PST |
I played AoS a few times since it came out, and I like the core rules. But it never really caught on here due to the lack of the points system for pick up games. With the release of the General's Handbook, which has a points system, we have seen an increase in its popularity. I enjoyed WHFB, but there was (esp in 8th) a big buy-in price to play, and IMO it didn't scale well for smaller battles. With AoS, the start up cost is much lower, and the "Start Collecting" boxes discount the miniatures quite a bit. I am getting ready to purchase the Sylvaneth box, or maybe two of them. I miss the Old World, but it was quite generic. The new High Fantasy type setting has grown on me. It wouldn't surprise me if AoS does do a lot better at drawing new players in and increasing the profits on the Fantasy side… especially with the Generals Handbook point system. |
theKOS | 07 Sep 2016 11:54 a.m. PST |
"Oh and the reason why they killed it off? They could not Trademark: Empire Orcs Goblins High Elf/High Elves Wood Elf/Wood Elves Dwarf/Dwarves Demon/Demons" Yup, and not to pile on GW, but a lot of their supposedly 'original' IP is pretty derivative too. The chaos stuff is cribbed, along with the symbol, from Moorcock (mostly his 'Elric' stories). And the Skaven,including a 'council of 13', are eerily similar to the wererats in Lieber's 'Swords of Lankhmar'. (Then there's the historical pastiches of The Empire, Brettonia, Tilea, Norsca and Estalia; they barely even changed the names.) Now I personally thought this was all fun as heck to play with as a lad. But as GW's gotten a bit litigious in their old age… It does seem as if they're, to a certain extent, writing a copy-write case and not a game. |
Mithmee | 07 Sep 2016 1:03 p.m. PST |
"We already have the preliminary report. Revenue is up this year over last."From what I've heard and read, AoS this year outsold WFB over the last year. If anything took a hit it was 40K. Well after looking at the real report Revenue is down and it looks like getting Royalties is the only thing that kept the Revenue out of the cellar. |