Help support TMP


"Curious Royal Epithets " Topic


18 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

Please remember that some of our members are children, and act appropriately.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Utter Drivel Message Board

Back to the Historical Media Message Board


Areas of Interest

General

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Featured Ruleset


Featured Showcase Article

Transporting the Simians

How to store and transport an army of giant apes?


Featured Workbench Article


Current Poll


Featured Book Review


1,226 hits since 11 Jul 2016
©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Tango0111 Jul 2016 10:11 p.m. PST

"There is a long tradition in Europe of giving kings, queens and even aristocrats epithets: e.g. Catherine the Great, Louis the Pious… Of course, epithets make particular sense when dynasties repeat names endlessly: you need to distinguish one George from another, say. Beach has spent an hour looking through collections of lists of these epithets, just really because of the patterns that emerge when they are taken all together. For example, there are many bold, fair, and great monarchs: but it is surprising how many ‘Bertha the blind', and ‘John the lame' kings and queens appear. As this site offers bizarre names Beach thought he would go through and give some of the most unusual epithets. All persons are (or at least are meant to be) historical: if the individual in question belongs to the mythical past or if the epithet was a little used historians' creation then please correct Likewise if you have other epithets: drbeachcoming AT yahoo DOT com Note that nicknames are not epithets: calling Charlotte of Mecklenberg Monkey Face is different from saying Charlotte the Ugly…."
More here
link

Amicalement
Armand

tkdguy11 Jul 2016 10:44 p.m. PST

Weren't Charlemagne's parents known as Pepin the Short and Bertha Greatfoot? The article missed those.

And Ivar the Bonless had a brother called Sigurd Snake-in-Eye.

Mako1111 Jul 2016 11:40 p.m. PST

I think we should adopt this here as well!

Over to the Blue Fez for more……..

David Manley12 Jul 2016 6:04 a.m. PST

Edith Swan Neck

link

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP12 Jul 2016 6:15 a.m. PST

Not to mention Charles the Fat, Pepin the Hunchback or Ethelred the Unready

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP12 Jul 2016 6:23 a.m. PST

Not royalty, but a guy who made a big impact, Dionysius Exiguus – Shy Little Dennis.

Great War Ace12 Jul 2016 6:27 a.m. PST

Harald Hardrada. Always liked that one.

Henry Martini12 Jul 2016 7:03 a.m. PST

(A)ethelred was unraed (old English for ill-advised), not unready.

John the Greater12 Jul 2016 7:30 a.m. PST

Władysław the Elbow-high has always been one of my favorites. You can probably surmise that he never made the basketball team.

athun2512 Jul 2016 11:49 a.m. PST

Basil Bulgar Basher
Antigonus Monopthalmus (one-eyed)
of course Vlad the Impaler

Skeets Supporting Member of TMP12 Jul 2016 4:27 p.m. PST

How about Vlad the Impaler?

number414 Jul 2016 10:58 a.m. PST

Well there was William the Bar Steward, the unfortunately numbered Henry the fourth (HIV….) as well as Robert the Bruce (King of Australia)

Supercilius Maximus20 Jul 2016 4:52 a.m. PST

How about Vlad the Impaler?

Careful with that one – a friend's children came home from school and announced that their (posh prep) school was adopting animals from the local zoo. They had chosen an Impala and were looking for a name…

…At this point, I suggested Vlad: dad sprayed tea all over his lap top, mum gave me "one of those looks" and then got on with cooking the dinner, and the children both looked completely vacant.

tkdguy21 Jul 2016 12:01 a.m. PST

Vlad the Impala

i.imgur.com/GRgfhBT.png

Ottoathome25 Jul 2016 4:40 a.m. PST

KINGS AND THINGS

by

Otto Schmidt

This paper was adapted from a book review I wrote in my PhD Effort It is useful for illustrating the whole range of funny names kings have which just happen to be real. As with everything, you can't make this stuff up, and Monty Python at its best could not match real life.

Kings have exercised a special fascination in the west, and the title of king has attained a unique cachet in the psyche of men and women. Monarchs, not only kings and emperors, but any sovereign of lesser title who could live by the formula "rex et imperio in regno suo", have been vested by their subjects, as the repositories of loyalty, aspirations, and hope. Kings in the west live, in the minds of men, cheek-by- jowl with their subjects, in a more or less easy familiarity. In the east on the other hand, monarchs are seperated from their subjects by a distance both in space and ritual. Nothing can illustrate this better than a brief, and by no means complete enumeration of the appellations given to western kings.

Kings in the west have been called "the great," "the good," "the bad," "the fat," "the boar," "the bear," "the bull," "the bold," "the rash," "the ugly," "the lazy," "the hasty," "bomba," and "bombalino."

They have been known as "the pious", "the silent", "the serene", "the pacific," "the simple," "the merry", "the bearded", "the lame," "the red", "the black", "the German", "the confessor", "the fearless", "the inevitable", "the lecher", "the necessary", "the unready", "the miser", "the hermit", "the fair", "silly Billy", "boustrappa" and "Fum the Fourth."

There has been a king or queen called "the fowler," "the navigator," "the she-wolf", "the wind", "the just", "the hammer", "the illustrious," "the giant," "the learned," "the Lion" "the magnanimous," "the magnificent", "The Chamois hunter," "The Brilliant Madman", "The Hammer of the World," "The wonder of the World," and "the Semiramis of the North."

Kings have been referred to as "the soldier king", "the sailor king", the "porcelean king", "the winter king", "the sun king", "the blue king", "the spider king", "the citizen king", "the dandy king", "the maiden king," "redbeard", "forkbeard", "ironhand," "shortsword", "lionheart," "longshanks", "shortthigh","longsword," "curtmantle", "lackland," "windy-cap," "Roi Panade", "Uncle", "curthose", "bluetooth". "crookback," "Franconi", "No-no," "Yes Yes," and "no-bone."

Kings have been "over the water", "under the mountain", and "in the woods". This creative, mirthful, sentimental, and at times unflattering and satirical monnikering of monarchs bespeaks of a more easy familiarity than the east where monarchs are known most often only by names such as "The Fierce" or "The Terrible." This difference of conception of kingship, east to west, is ancient. Consider a typical memorial "stella" of Ashur-nasirpal, King of Assyria.


" I Ashur-nasirpal have destroyed Ur and Lagash, I have laid waste their cities and carried off their treasures. Judah I have cut off and carried into captivity…

On the other hand consider one of the Indo-Aryan Persian Kings,

"I Darius the Great have restored… "

To further heighten and at the same time validate this distinction consider the Biblical book of Daniel. Daniel begins in the reign of Nebuchadnezzar (actually Nabu-Naid) and goes into the reign of Cyrus. In the middle of the book of course is the well known story of Belthazzars feast with its "mene-tekel-Parsin". Yet before this story Nebuchadnezzar persecutes the Jews by throwing Shadrach Meschac and Abednigo into the fiery furnace. Nebuchadnezzar can do this because he is a tyrant pure and simple, and in a moral allegory of tyranny and the corruption of power Nebuchadnezzar is driven mad. Consider what happens when nobles of the Persian king conspire against Daniel. They tell the king that Daniel has broken the kings law. The king, Cyrus, therefore consigns Daniel to the LIons deen, but unwillingly. He prays that Daniels God will protect him. Cyrus suspects Daniel is being charged falsely, but he, the king, as his least subject, is bound by the law. When Daniel survives, Cyrus throws the evil councillors into the lions den where the lions make short work of them.

This profusion of more mundane and not always flattering names betokens a relationship far more intimate than the seeming distant one of ruler and subject. The analogy of kingship as a parallel of family life, and of the king as the kind, wise, just, benevolent father is a myth that defenders of monarchy have actively purveyed, and the public just as avidly consumed. The miraculous thing is that both sides have often really believed it and really tried to live up to the image. It was once asserted that "there is a divinity that doth hedge a king" this is true, but there is a humanity which hedges him about as well. In times of trouble people have looked to a distant or idealized past, to a good king who will come and write wrongs and restore the happy halcyon days. When oppressed by magistrates, soldiers, or taxmen, citizens would cry out "if only the king knew" – if they found out that the king indeed did know, and approved, they looked back to the "good old days" of his father, or they vested his son and heir with being the rising sun who would undo the work of the kings evil councillors. The present troubles of the English Monarchy are no exception. Charles and Di' were an ordeal and then a tragedy, and the pooperatzi seem to fiendishly fasten the details of the poor woman to turn it into another spectacle– in effect de "Camelot" (indeed the confluence of the name of Charles and the English throne seems to yield universally disasterous results), however it is now prince William (a name already garlanded with historical mystique) who people look forward to, to restore the monarchy.

This is no bygone or antique sentiment. The west is as besotted with monarchy as it ever was. People in democracies avidly follow the trials, tribulations, and antics of royal scions. Critics of monarchy point to the scandals and failings of these noble soap-opera stars as evidence of the incipient end of the institution, as fatally discrediting it, as of ruining its support.

Nothing could be further from the truth.


The public has always feasted on these stories of royal peccadillos and rogueish behaviour. Kings, princess, duchesses, and Earls are allowed to do these things, for they are, in our minds, truly above us, of a higher morality and order. They are allowed, as public figures, to become, like the criminal, flaunters of the customs, restraints, and rules of society. This can be at the same time they are upheld as paragons, exemplars, and upholders, and reifiers of the very rules they flaunt. This contradictory and paradoxical view simply identifies the "royal folk" as one of us, both inside, and at the same time outside of society, caught between law and desire. They become vicarious surrogates for ourselves, doing the things that we do not have the means, but more often the nerve, to do.

But if, in our games, we let our fancies fly---

Bashytubits25 Jul 2016 9:54 a.m. PST

Tango0125 Jul 2016 11:48 a.m. PST

Good job Otto!.

Amicalement
Armand

Deuce0312 Aug 2016 10:16 a.m. PST

Before – and even after – the Norman Conquest, it seems that these were used almost exclusively to differentiate kings. From Alfred onwards:

Alfred the Great
Edward the Elder
Athelstan
Edmund the Magnificent
Edred
Eadwig
Edgar the Peaceable
Edward the Martyr
Ethelred Unraed ("the Unready")
Sweyn Forkbeard
Edmund Ironside
Cnut the Great
Harold Harefoot
(Hartha)Cnut
Edward the Confessor
Harold Godwinson
William the Conqueror
William Rufus
Henry Beauclerk
Stephen
Henry Curtmantle
Richard the Lionheart
John Lackland

Not all of them have sobriquets (Harthacnut is debatable, as he's known as Cnut III in Denmark, and "Hartha-" may have been a nickname of sorts) but all those with non-unique names had them and many of them aren't traditionally numbered even where they could be. Indeed with Edwards the numbering was restarted in the 13th century despite the presence of at least two prior Edwards who could be considered.

By the end of the Angevin era the tradition seems to have been dying. Henry III was sometimes known as Henry of Winchester but more commonly as "Henry III", although his sons received sobriquets ("Edward Longshanks" and "Edmund Crouchback"). Edward I seems to have been the last king to have such a personal sobriquet, although namings by birthplace continued for a while (notably, Richard (II) of Bordeaux; Henry (VI) of Bolingbroke, Henry (V) of Monmouth).

There was a renaissance in such names during the early 19th century, as with Mad King George (III), and Sailor Bill (William IV), but these have not acquired official status in the same way.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.