"Aztec Thoughts and some Pics" Topic

I'm working on some rules Piquet style for these guys.

There are some more pics and some initial thoughts on Aztec – Spanish warfare.

If your interested stop by here's the link.

withob.blogspot.co.uk

Nice. I've been tempted a few times to get into this time period, but I never have.

Yeah I bought some figures way back when. Never got much use of them. None of the rules I played seemed any good at the Aztec thing. Piquet seems to offer an opportunity though.

I really like your basing

I have already painted up figs in 1/72 for it. Revell and Caesar I believe. Nice figs. There is a TSATF variant that looks interesting. 12 fig Spaniard and 20 fig Aztec units. However, I am a Field of Battle aficionado and will follow your progress.

I will check out your thoughts.

Thanks,

John

I just did a Warlord Games Day where we used Pike and Shotte ( Warlord) and with just a few minor modifications for the Aztecs, the rules played very well. We had somewhere over 400 28mm Aztecs and fewer than 100 Spanish ( only 7 Sp. Cav.) The Spanish had their hands full in 3 of the 4 games we played. Most games were over in a little over 2 1/2 hrs.
I highly recommend these rules if you have armies for that period.

Nice!!

Isn't there a TSatF variant for that ? The Gold and the Cross or something ?

Thanks lads.

Here's the thing. When the Spanish first fought the Maya they got beat. Their first battles against the Tlaxcala Otomi were hard fought and its doubtful they could have continued. By the time they faced the Aztec huge numbers of native allies were fighting for them.

The trick, it seems to me, is to capture the many Spanish advantages without making them unbeatable. That means going back to the Conquistador accounts of the Conquest.

For those who haven't read it, 'The Conquest of New Spain' by Bernal Diaz is a cracking read, and fleshes out the whole story. It's an eye witness account, he was a soldier on the expedition. Available from Penguin Classics
link

Yes its a great book and reads very well for 'moderns' like ourselves. He has a fine eye for military detail too.

Jarrovian, thanks for the link.

What maker are those? RalPartha?

Very nice in whatever case.

Otto

They look like Gladiator figures maybe?

Thanks Otto.

That's right J, Gladiator 15mm now made and marketed by Black Hat.

They do lovely Maya too but having Tlaxcala and Mexico already I cannot justify getting them as well.

It's an eye witness account, he was a soldier on the expedition…..

He may have been there, but Diaz finished "Historia verdadera de la conquista de la Nueva España" 47 years after the events. He would then revise the book.

Also, I would recommend the Maudsley translation published by Da Capo Press, which is far superior to the Cohen translation published by Penguin.

Yes it is the best of the two, and it has an introduction by Hugh Thomas author of Conquest. It is also very affordable if you don't mind a used copy prices start at one cent plus postage.

While it doesn't say so, some parts of the Penguin version are abridged when compared side by side with the Da Capo version. Penguin is on its 6th edition, so I wonder how long the editing out of sections has occurred. Maudsley's translation is older, but I like it better.

I have an edition from the early '80s where it is noted some of the 'tedious and repetitive battle descriptions' have been edited out!

Typical. The tedious and repetitive stuff is what we Wargamers want. Of course the descriptions of the battles are incredibly poor and vague. The Spanish had such a high opinion of themselves and a corresponding disinterest in anything to do with the New World.

They would comment on the Aztec "squadrons moving quickly and efficiently" Huh? Squadrons? Sometimes the Aztecs were termed "Moors". Really, Moors?

To bad there were no down-on-their-luck educated men tagging along giving a good historical account, a sort of Mesoamerican Tacitus, Livy or Ammianus. But for what we do have, Bernal Diaz is amongst the best, and as Jarrovian says, "it's a cracking read".

Other recommendations would be Fray Diego Duran's "History of the Indies of New Spain". Duran was a Dominican Friar who grew up in Mexico and knew Nahuatl. He collected all the Aztec stories, all the way from the mythic origins of the people that left Aztlan until the fall of Tenochtitlan. Mine is published by Oklahoma Press

The same press that publishes the works of Ross Hassig, such as "Aztec Warfare" (there is a longer, convoluted title). An essential book.

Also, Jacques Soustelle's "Daily Life of the Aztecs" which explains the Aztec mind set and the society they created. Chapter 6 deals with Warfare. Already mentioned is Hugh Thomas to which I would add Buddy Levy's "Conquistador".

Thanks, I'll look out for Fray Duran and Buddy Levy the others I have.

I wonder if the Moors stuff was about legitimising their actions to the audience back home and keeping their own grip on New Spain. The huge wealth attracted some serious predators at court .

Or all swarthy skinned non-Christians were thought of as the same…..who knows? Lol!