"Former HMGS members - What will bring U back?" Topic

Otto, you never fail to disappoint. That crack about Dick Bryant was classic Otto.

Otto – Thank you!!your comments on publishing have started my day with a deep laugh -Oh they were serious ????
Somehow your equating a self published newsletter for maybe 200 readers to any industry or academia publication is ludicrous

As to your alleged 40+ years in the publishing field- just because someone has had piles for that long does not make them a gastroenterologist.
There are many industries were e-zines turn more of a profit than the published magazine (and are generally more accessible as well ,not to mention being able to have up to the minute info )the wine industry and the pharma industry are just 2 of the ones that come to mind . As another person posted you are just wrong about academia as well.

In some ways it is good that you post your rants -it is a reminder to people not live in the past but to look to the future.

Grt, that was simply a beautiful take down. This thread just keeps getting better!

This print versus digital debate is relatively laughable anyway. The fact of the matter is that when you layout a magazine you have done 99.99% of the work towards making it a PDF that would be readable on e-readers and computers. Any newsletter that doesn't offer a digital option is lagging behind. BUT I would also say that any newsletter/periodical/magazine that doesn't offer, at the very least, a print on demand option for their products is lagging behind as well.

Rules is an interesting example. For the most part I won't even look at a set of rules that I can't get a physical copy of. Yet, if that set of rules has a PDF option, on top of the physical option, there is a good chance that I will buy both versions as I reference rules during the game on my iPad, but I much prefer to read/learn the rules in a physical format.

All that being said, I don't expect academic journals pertaining to Server Management and C++ Coding to be physical, as it is a little antithetical to the subject at hand. However, there are still many fields, such as History, Biology, and Astronomy, where it is hard to get your paper critically noticed without being in a physical publication.

I know the issue is a livewire, but: I won't go back to the Lancaster Host, meaning I won't be returning to Cold Wars nor to Fall-In while they are there. And it's cheaper to just pay the non-HMGS entry fee if I am only hitting Historicon.

People just aren't joining organizations. Based on 2014 data, 39% identify as independents, 32% as Democrats and 23% as Republicans. Masons have dropped from over 4 million in the 50s to about 1.1 today, with about double the US population. Attending club meetings, such as those held by Rotary and Kiwanis groups, has declined by 58 percent in the past 25 years.

Could it be that online communities are taken the place of typical organizations to a larger extent?

Thomalley, all that may be true, but just about every other game con out there is seeing growth.

Weasel, I think that's definitely the case.

Tom,
What will bring you back?
Jim

Never left. I've been a member since around 2006 and have attended all three HMGS shows consistently.

I'm talking to all those who choose to stay at home instead of attending all 3 HMGS conventions and becoming active members again. What would bring you out of your basement?

TRU

Perhaps, we are looking at this wrong. Instead of trying to coddle to old members in returning. We need to focus on the future and what will bring in new members into the HMGS ranks.

At the risk of offending people, I am reminded of a classic line from Fawlty Towers.

Guest: "We are not satisified"
Basil: "Well, people like you never are"

People come and go at the cons and in any organization's membership, that is just a fact of life.

I'm not really sure why membership should be viewed as more important than attendance, especially since membership was purposefully made dependent on attendance.

It is pretty clear that:

1. People are dissatisfied with the facilities (take your pick) – and that includes both physical plant and locations

2. The cons don't ever seem to offer anything new. They are essentially three cookie cutter programs that only vary in size (of attendance and programming). There has been no attempt to differentiate one con from another

3. Dealer drop off likely has impact, but with the advent of internet sales, that trend will likely continue

4. It's the economy, stupid. It doesn't help, at the very least.

5. Adversiting is poor. I recently ran a game at a full hobby shop – all kinds of games going on. Not one flyer, poster, etc., of the cons. Most don't know about them at all. You can thank the shrinking advertising budgets (one way to lower con costs), loss of a hard copy newsletter (or at the very least, an eye catching flyer), and loss of an open internet site. I know, YM is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

6. There are no benefits of membership, except if you attend the cons.

I can't imagine anything that would get me to rejoin. Nothing against the organization. I just don't feel the need to belong. No real benefit in belonging, and I am not talking about discounts. Don't feel any sense of community, just another place where some small group of people can fight over who's going to control all the other members. No difference between HMGS or Congress except the scope of their reach.

6. There are no benefits of membership, except if you attend the cons.

Bingo. And combine that with

2. The cons don't ever seem to offer anything new. They are essentially three cookie cutter programs that only vary in size (of attendance and programming).

and finish that off with #5, which i'd expand to just in general be about the lack of effort to bring in new gamers. So you just have a group that caters to, well, itself, and just sees dwindling numbers. Maybe the problem isn't a shrinking pool of returnees, but is instead the lack of effort in branching out to new gamers.

I'm talking to all those who choose to stay at home instead of attending all 3 HMGS conventions and becoming active members again. What would bring you out of your basement?

Nothing. First off, like most working stiffs, I only have so much vacation time per year. At most, I can make 1 east con per year (unless I really want to get the other half mad at me). And I'm sure I'm in the majority on this.

I'm talking to all those who choose to stay at home instead of attending all 3 HMGS conventions and becoming active members again. What would bring you out of your basement?

No reason to go to 3, as has been said they are all pretty much the same. As far as coming out of my basement, I skipped Historicon and walked the entire length of Hardian's wall with wife and two friends.

No reason to go to 3, as has been said they are all pretty much the same.

Too true. I know of one group of gamers who replaced Hcon with FI because they got tired of the mid summer heat (in both VA and PA) because there was no difference.

As far as coming out of my basement, I skipped Historicon and walked the entire length of Hardian's wall with wife and two friends.

Sounds like a whole lot more fun than ANY con I know of!

People choose to join something because they feel it has benefit to them – material, or psychological. For other non-profit organizations, you join or donate as you feel they are doing good with the money, such as the Red Cross or Salvation Army.

HMGS is, at its heart, a hobby club. While they have given their money away in the past, as a member, I never felt most of those efforts were a good idea. Since they generate profits with their conventions, and provide per diems, etc, to many of the board and staff members, it did not seem like they "needed" any more money.

HMGS could try some specific things to tinker with their cons, but I am sure the CDs are hesitant to do something that might negatively affect their attendance. Soooo….. it is what it is.

the purpose of HMGS back then was to meet new gamers. But over time I seen too much Elitism. Spending Massive amounts of money with no input from the membership?. No accountability what so ever.

Like congress. They never give any money back. Instead attendance fees goes up. HMGS coffers go up.

No newsletter to keep everybody informed.No battle reports or event worthy news.

Whether historical or not. Does not matter

to induce me to return;

Reduce membership fees, If you are a member a discount on attendance.

Membership newsletter, don't have to be on Print now.
Ok To email or post on website these days.

A vote by membership over $25,000 USD expenditures.(yes it requires planning.)

Members who squander monies should be prosecuted . just like everybody else!

If you are suppose to be non-profit. kick back the money in reducing attendance fees.

If you are going to change a location / venue. Let the members vote on it.

That is what will bring me back.

BTW i never met a rude volunteer. Just a technology deficient system they have to work with.

thank you for reading this. Maybe some of my ideas might be prone to action.

Members who squander monies should be prosecuted . just like everybody else!
Actually, squandering isn't illegal. It's embezzling or misappropriating. You can squander billions legally. One persons squander is another's bold attempt to do something special.

A vote by membership over $25,000.00 USD USD expenditures.(yes it requires planning.)

If you are going to change a location / venue. Let the members vote on it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what you have a BOD for? Otherwise, putting everything to a vote is about the surest way to killing HMGS.

I think the BOD has too much power and no over-site committee.

they are suppose to represent us but don't.

Clearly they lack the expertise to get things done properly.

you asked my opinion. I gave it.

I do not think the BOD represents the members anymore.

I don't remember who wrote it because this thing is so long, but the name is Pat Condry, not Conray. He was a true pioneer in American historical wargaming, and although we didn't always see eye to eye, he was a dear friend.

Actually,it's Condray.
Though I suspect both mistakes were typos.

I'm coming late to this discussion but reading the thread recently I felt that I needed to respond to the remarks of Otto. I have been wargaming for over 40 years. Since my job moved me all over the country, I was always looking to find new groups of like-minded people to game with. In the early years this was through print magazines. I first met Larry Brom through an ad placed by another wargamer in a magazine. Several years later I met Bob Beattie in the same way.

All these magazines were labours of love by dedicated individuals. I can't imagine that they did more than break even if that. Those of us in the hobby owe a lot to these individuals and they need to be recognized. Firstly because he was slammed by Otto on this forum is Dick Bryant and "The Courier" but I would be remiss not to mention among others,Gene McCoy,"Wargames Digest",Hal Thinglum,"MWAN" and Jean Lochet "Empires, Eagles,Lions".

But that was then and this is now. I get hobby news online through forums like this one and the various Yahoo Groups. I have access to resources that I never would have thought possible when I started in this hobby in 1974. Whether it's historical articles, painting and uniform guides,new figures or just the PEL for the next convention, now is truly the golden age.
(Although at my age,I wouldn't mind another 40 years to enjoy it !!)
Any nostalgia for a supposed vanished magical time is misplaced. Otto needs retreat to his cave if he is unable or unwilling to evoke with the times.

Ray Koch

Dick, Hal and Gene represented the best of gaming.