"Best ww2 skirmish rules set?" Topic

My league has committed to 28mm collecting of ww2. We have left FoW behind, over a year ago, and began playing Bolt Action. Now, from some of the rumours we are hearing about second edition, we are worried it is moving even more towards 1940k, and we are already having to modify the system to fit a more historical style of play.

So, we are thinking of using a different system. However, none of us have any experience with any of the other systems, such as Chain of Command or Disposable Heroes.

This is why I turn to you, and ask for help. Can anyone recommend a system to us? If you could, tell us why and what is good about it? Thanks for your time!

Crossfire is a refreshing change to other systems and feels like a much more "realistic" game.

Disposable Heroes gives a generally all-round good game.

The major problem with Crossfire is the need for heaps of terrain: you need either an urban jungle, or just a jungle for it to work. When the rest of rural Europe has to look refreshingly like a jungle for the game to work, it becomes less of a "realistic" game.

And you can forget about any kind of desert warfare with Crossfire.

Oh. And the AFV rules are pretty much an after thought.

Bolt Action, to my mind, is a very lightweight game and any resemblance to WW2 tactics is strictly accidental.

I love Nuts! from 2 Hour Wargames. They have a free "lite" version called Chain Reaction which gives you the guts of the system. Then you buy the WW2 book for all the army lists and special rules.

The reaction system really stands alone in my mind. Soldiers react to events. They will shoot without needing an "overwatch" order, but will also hide from being shot at. Very realistic.

Best with no more than a platoon a side, and maybe one or two vehicles.

Dunno if I would describe Crossfire as a skirmish set. CoC will probably get the most recommendations, but there are *loads* of rules out there. The benefits,of course, is that you won't have to rebase any 28mm troops to try out a variety of rules before choosing your favorite.

Easy Eights Battleground.

My personal favorite is Disposable heroes. Bolt Action works well enough. I have only played Chain of Command once. My response to the TFL rules in general has been that there are brilliant aspects, but I was not happy with the overall game.
I have played the 2 hour wargames rules. I think they work very well for the zombie version. They require a quick grasp of the rules and someone that is coordinating and making sure the process is running. In practical terms, this tends to slow the game down

I play Chain of Command, but with a platoon being the minimum force for a game, I would say it is closer to 'mass skirmish' than a skirmish game. If you are using 28mm figures, I think the table can look a bit crowded.

I did play quite a bit of Battelground WW2 (not to be confused with Battleground WW2) when it came out, and it is an excellent skirmish level game. We used the rules for a Saving Private Ryan style campaign.

I searched the boards here and it looks like people are still playing it and that the rules are still available:

TMP link

neo-forge.com/rules1.html

Not exactly cheap, but I think definitely a contender for you.

It would depend on exactly what you wanted to use them for. Nuts! Has great campaign expandability and is, in my opinion, best played as a co-op game against a gamemaster (there is also a solo play system that is pretty good). It makes for excellent cinematic, Hollywood-style games, but might not be the best for competitive play.

Battleground WW2 is probably the most famous skirmish game, with a long-established and dedicated player base, despite being unsupported for years. It is a true 90's game in that it includes everything and the kitchen sink. It does narrative games really well, but has something for the treadheads and bolt-counters as well and even feels cinematic—all at the same time. Since the 90's, most rulesets try to do one niche really well. BGWW2 does it all and is a total success at that. Just don't try to play with more than a score of models on each side!

Troops, Weapons & Tactics is excellent for scenarios. It plays out extremely well, gives you a real sense of what made World War 2 what it was and has a cracking set of campaign rules with the Platoon Forward! supplement. It should probably jot be considered a "skirmish" per se, however, as it is more of a small-scale battle game. In my mind, a game has to allow for individual soldier actions to count as skirmish, and soldiers in TW&T move and act in small fireteams.

If you have any specific questions about those rulesets, I'd be happy to provide details of the game mechanics for each.

I'd say Chain of Command is very good. It handles up to platoon level very well, anything company level I'd use I Ain't Been Shot Mum or Flames of War instead. CoC has very good command and control and friction rules and it's not too shabby with move and fire as well. Hand to hand combat is a bit buckets o' dice but it works.

If you're looking for something more 'historical' you could also take a look at Men Under Fire by Frank Chadwick.
link

1 squad per player, try Patrol; WWII on wargamevault.com.

Started playing Combat Patrol this year and it is very good. Novel game system with dice only used as part of the activation system. I've played Bolt Action, various Ladies games and Disposable Heroes and I prefer these, and they have proven very popular at the club.

I have never liked those Ladies games – all pink fluffy dice and kittens

You've just not been playing the right kind of Ladies games, John.

I've played several of the games recommended here and In my opinion Chain of Command is the best of the lot.

It's played with historical platoons with some support. It rewards using the historical tactics used by each nations armies. Using the free supplement "Big Chain of Command" we've played up to 3 platoons a side with support with no problems.

Five Men At Kursk, by Nordic Weasel games. 1 squad per player or about a dozen figs plus maybe a light vehicle. Campaign system, character progression and more.

Chain of command is a platoon + support per side: it's my own choice for that scale of game. Games feel right, IMHO

It would depend on exactly what you wanted to use them for. Nuts! Has great campaign expandability and is, in my opinion, best played as a co-op game against a gamemaster (there is also a solo play system that is pretty good). It makes for excellent cinematic, Hollywood-style games, but might not be the best for competitive play.

Sums it up nicely. You can play cometitively if youw ant, just have players take turns going on Missions.
Here's some AARs on play. All the supplements work with the rules. I went into detail with this batch for the Italy After Normandy supplement.

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All of them mentioned are great, you'll find one you'll like

Arc of Fire. Covers the complete 20th century. Has charts for both 15mm and 20/28mm. Rules have been stable since written, with the minor exception of a reprint in 2002 that mostly fixed typos. Yahoo group has tons of info to download if you want/need more. d10 system. Some players find it a bit generic, but our group sees that as flexible, instead. My $0.02 USD USD, other opinions may vary.

thanks! some great suggestions here! youtube, here i come!

have you seen 1-48TACTIC?
it's a very fast-paced skirmish scale WWII game, which uses stat cards and tokens to produce a brutally realistic simulation without tables etc…
The rules are available for free, including some cards and all tokens needed… check it out: 1-48tactic.com

I'll put in another recommendation for Chain of Command. If you have figures based and ready for Bolt Action, then you probably have all you need for CoC. Both BA and CoC are pitched at the same level, but if you are looking for something challenging, fun AND historical then you might find CoC works for you.

CoC has a marvelous campaign system that is well supported and this lifts the game experience to another level and adds to the narrative. As if you can't guess, I'm a fan.

There are plenty of battle report AARs here that might help you get a feel for how the game plays Chain of Command campaign battle reports