Badgers | 01 Jul 2016 8:18 a.m. PST |
So it's 1985ish and you're a tank platoon commander in a defensive position. Over the hill come a number of enemy tanks. What sort of odds would make you go, ok pop a round or two at them and fall back to the next BP, versus, hey we've got this, let's finish them? (Looking for realistic responses from experienced tankers here.) |
Mick the Metalsmith | 01 Jul 2016 8:23 a.m. PST |
How far away is the hill and do they have confined avenues of approach or cover. of their own? Do they know I am there? Do I have artillery or infantry support? Do they?What are my orders? Have I been in the field a month or two days? Am I in good supply in ammunition? Where is the rest of the company? There is no pat answer. Not an armor officer but I was in a FIST team Artillery LT. |
Mako11 | 01 Jul 2016 8:55 a.m. PST |
Do I have a 90mm, 105mm, or 120mm main gun? Are we dealing with T-54s/T-55s, T-62s, T-64s, T-72s, T-80s? |
Tgunner | 01 Jul 2016 9:20 a.m. PST |
Yeah, what those guys said. Tanks fight as platoons and sections. Not really as individuals (FYI- a US tank section was two tanks with two sections making a platoon). At the very least you're working with your platoon: calling and serving targets in a coordinated manner. It's the platoon leader, or section leader, who calls out the order to scoot. But usually you're only going to toss a few rounds from a given fighting position before you scoot to the next one. More than that and you're giving the bad guys a chance to acquire you as a target. So basically each tank "serves" a target or two then moves to its alternate fighting position. Odds wise, a US platoon should be able to handle a Soviet company assuming we have good positions, reasonable fire support, and the Soviets are on the attack. With better tanks, say M1A1, fighting poorer tanks, say T72s, you can up the Soviet numbers some and the US platoon can still take 'em. Scale up to T64 or T80s and it still sits around a company or so given the above assumptions. The thing to remember here is the US tanks fire very quickly and extreme accurately. My tank could serve 5-6 targets in a minute! And maybe miss once there even with movers. But then again Corporal Morris/SFC Lemon were the "dream team" gunnery crew. Your other tank's mileage may very!! I would imagine that the Russian crews would be wondering if the 120mm was an autocannon! |
Cold Steel | 01 Jul 2016 9:23 a.m. PST |
Like Mick says, no pat answer. There are too many variables. Is the platoon in front of the enemy or to the flank? Assuming a range of 1000 meters and flanking shots with a 105 or 120mm, a US platoon from ambush can eliminate a Soviet tank company in about 30 seconds without displacing. The problem is the bad guys wouldn't charge down the open killing fields a single company at a time like too many war games. Some kind of resistance had to force them to deploy in the open. When that happens, they won't just charge straight ahead, but will prep the area with lots of things that go Bang! and bring plenty of friends when they come. |
Saber6 | 01 Jul 2016 9:59 a.m. PST |
Does my Mission and higher allow it? At the NTC my platoon (M1/105) had an 8 to 1 kill ratio on the defense. Against anything older than a T80, I'd expect we could handle a company or 2 |
Badgers | 01 Jul 2016 10:57 a.m. PST |
Great answers, thanks! Let's say we're dealing with enemy tanks equivalent in performance to our own. |
Mako11 | 01 Jul 2016 11:01 a.m. PST |
General attack rules state that you need a 3:1 ratio to succeed against enemy defenses (5:1 or more in built-up areas). So, assuming that's true, and giving a nod to defenders well hidden, I'd say they might kill off 2 or 3 attackers before being taken out, themselves, on average. |
kallman | 01 Jul 2016 12:35 p.m. PST |
I'm going to need more tanks for my Soviets in Team Yankee after reading this. |
mckrok | 01 Jul 2016 12:44 p.m. PST |
|
Saber6 | 01 Jul 2016 1:02 p.m. PST |
Kallman: Anything less than a battalion is not worth the effort. |
Tgunner | 01 Jul 2016 3:13 p.m. PST |
Yup. You need 30ish tanks plus a mech company. |
skippy0001 | 01 Jul 2016 3:48 p.m. PST |
One 2nd Lt. that misread the Davy Crockett manual….. |