kallman | 29 Jun 2016 5:42 p.m. PST |
So as I make friends in the Lone Star State it has come up among some of the folks I hang out with that they would like to have some kind of dungeon crawl on a regular basis. being a veteran DM of many years I offered to run a campaign. Currently I do not own any sets of RPGs especially fantasy. One of the potential players was really big on us using 5th Edition D&D. Then I saw the price to get all three of the main books, Dungeon Master's Guide, Player's Handbook and Monster Manual and was not ready to plunk down $150. USD Now here in Dallas we have this wonderful place called Half Priced Books a Mecha of all things in print and then some. Of course they have a robust used RPG section and I even spied all three copies of the first edition Advanced D & D for a mere $12 USD bucks each. So while I understand that 5th is a very streamlined version and have read many reviews touting its virtues I was thinking of just going old school or picking one of the earlier editions. What are your thoughts? What is your favorite Fantasy RPG or for that matter "other" genre of RPG? At this point I am not set on what setting this campaign will take. The only provision that one of the players has requested is that I keep it light hearted. |
Dynaman8789 | 29 Jun 2016 6:35 p.m. PST |
GURPS is my favorite for all rpg genres |
Wretched Peasant Scum | 29 Jun 2016 6:44 p.m. PST |
link Basic Fantasy $5 USD for hard copy basicfantasy.org Free PDF Human, Elves, Dwarves & Halfling races. Fighters, Cleric, Magic-user &Thief classes. Goes to level 20. A full complete game based on Basic/Expert (BECMI) D&D with some modern design bits (e.g. Ascending Armor Class). Tons of free supporting material anything not is cheap. Super easy to modify if you feel the need. |
mad monkey 1 | 29 Jun 2016 6:53 p.m. PST |
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Brian Smaller | 29 Jun 2016 7:42 p.m. PST |
Savage World, Hero System, GURPS. There are so many. If you want rules light then perhaps a hack of Barbarians of Lemuria. |
rmaker | 29 Jun 2016 7:54 p.m. PST |
Tunnels & Trolls, Chaosium Runequest, or original D&D. |
Idaho Wargamer | 29 Jun 2016 7:55 p.m. PST |
How many $12 USD 1st edition books are you thinking of buying. The first Monster Manual wasn't a huge tome, so would you pick up the Fiend Folio, MM3? What about Unearthed Arcana so you can add a few more class options? If you end up with say 6 $12 USD books your at $72. USD Amazon has all three 5E books for something like $28 USD, $27 USD and $31 USD bucks for a total just short of $90. USD I've played/DM'd every edition and 5E gives a VERY GOOD experience. I'd encourage you to still consider it. Whichever edition, good luck launching a new campaign, always exciting to set out on new adventures! |
YogiBearMinis | 29 Jun 2016 7:56 p.m. PST |
You can get Labyrinth Lord and its Advanced Edition supplement free in PDF form--this is the "retroclone" rewrite of the D&D Basic/Expert rule set from 1981 and the supplement merges it with AD&D 1e. Everything you need in two PDf's, free, to run what was essentially the style of D&D circa 1981-3. The two books have all the monsters from 1980s D&D, all the rules, all the treasure and magic items. Definitely on the old school, simple, end of the spectrum, but lots of fun and FREE. |
darthfozzywig | 29 Jun 2016 8:06 p.m. PST |
Fave version of D&D? "Moldvay" Basic D&D. Still probably my favorite all-time RPG Other favorite fantasy RPGs: Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 1e The One Ring Pendragon |
Garand | 29 Jun 2016 8:08 p.m. PST |
5th ed is the current version of D&D, so is going to be the most popular. Sure you could invest in 1e and hope to convince players to get into it, but it will be an uphill battle for a game that is OOP. Whereas 5e is IN print and will be inevitably easier to recruit players for. Damon. |
kallman | 29 Jun 2016 9:17 p.m. PST |
Well the three books are gone. Knew I should have picked them up when I first saw them. Ah well. I will check out the other suggestions. |
Pictors Studio | 29 Jun 2016 9:23 p.m. PST |
I would go with 3.0 D&D. It was the first of the d20 versions. It simplified a lot of things. I'm sure there was broken stuff in there but it is an RPG, you make up half the rules as you go anyway. |
PrivateSnafu | 29 Jun 2016 9:28 p.m. PST |
I would use D&D 3.5. With the 3.5 open gaming license and the free online system reference document you'd be good to go. Nothing out of pocket and everyone will have access to the rules for free. Go to: d20srd.org |
Winston Smith | 29 Jun 2016 10:30 p.m. PST |
First versions of everything are always the best. There are no exceptions. |
Coyotepunc and Hatshepsuut | 29 Jun 2016 11:20 p.m. PST |
I like Original D&D, the so-called "0 edition." I like the OGL version of it called "Swords & Wizardry" even more. |
PrivateSnafu | 29 Jun 2016 11:40 p.m. PST |
Yeah right. Shall we go back to the first version of the Constitution? Hey, if you have them on the shelf and its 1st edition use them, otherwise later versions tend to offer improvements. The improvements can streamline or not. D&D got more complicated as versions progressed to 3.5. They seem to be in streamline mode now. 3.5 seemed to me the pinnacle of the D&D rules. The feats added nice customizations and though cumbersome the skill system tied proficiencies and ability checks into a unified mechanic. Of course they broke the monster manual by introducing encounter levels where old school DMs struggled to figure out how to create appropriately challenging fights. They should have just changed the Hit Die to d10 from d8. Actually they really screwed up monsters. Giving monsters ability scores was dumb, who gives a rip what wisdom an Orc has, just kill it or enslave it! If not for the free SRD I might just tell you to use AD&D 2nd edition. RPG's and rules discussions are always fun. You might want to ask your group if they are looking to actually "role play" or wanting a game mechanic to level up characters via encounters and dice rolled rules decisions. Some of the most fun RPG's I ever participated in barely used the rules. Since we are on a miniatures site I'm wondering if the Dungeon crawling will be using figures. If yes, then some of the Ganesha games might do the trick. Perhaps a tabletop miniatures rule set might be what you actually need, not a classic RPG. |
Green Tiger | 30 Jun 2016 2:30 a.m. PST |
I agree with Pictors AD&D 3rd edition in preference to all the later editions. I do like a bit of Basic too, especially as a DM. |
Ed Mohrmann | 30 Jun 2016 2:40 a.m. PST |
Kim I've gamed with you – you have a GREAT imagination and a solid idea of what makes a good game. Why not just trying running something 'out of your head,' rather than relying upon books, systems, etc. ? There are players who insist on having something to reference, but after all, life isn't like that. You never know, for certain, what comes next or how that mild-mannered postal worker will react to a frustration. |
YogiBearMinis | 30 Jun 2016 5:11 a.m. PST |
The key to picking D&D 3.0/3.5/4.0 is to stick to the core books and not engage in "supplement bloat"--the core volumes, esp 3.0/3.5/Pathfinder (which is essentially D&D 3.75) give you a great and balanced game with enough "crunch" to satisfy role players who want more detail. You start adding specialized class books and the like then it gets out of control fast. |
Tgerritsen | 30 Jun 2016 6:27 a.m. PST |
Don't forget that there is a free edition of the 5th Edition D&D rules. You could always start there… link |
wminsing | 30 Jun 2016 6:35 a.m. PST |
Yes, start with the D&D 'Basic' Rules that TGerristen linked to. They are free, provide enough material for quite a few games and the 5th edition are actually pretty good. -Will |
Garand | 30 Jun 2016 7:33 a.m. PST |
IMHO, if you do decide to go for D&D 3.0/3.5, pick up Pathfinder instead. A little more refined version of the rules, and also still in print. Damon. |
freewargamesrules | 30 Jun 2016 8:23 a.m. PST |
Another +1 for Basic Fantasy, you can download the full PDF's for free and if you like get the printed versions from Amazon at print cost. |
kallman | 30 Jun 2016 8:51 a.m. PST |
@ Ed, Actually Ed your idea is one that I am considering doing. Much of the feats, skills and other extras that are part of later editions are I think can be easily done through good game mastering, being flexible and allowing your players to do cool things within reason. One of the aspects I do like about the 5th edition rules that I have seen is the nice set up with Difficulty Checks or DC. You can do that just as easy with say, Player:"I want to leap across that gap between the buildings to chase the Orc theif." DM: "OK make a roll on your dexterity with a minus two but I will allow you to use your strength bonus if you have one to modify the score." In later editions there would be all this other stuff for feats and skills the player would have to keep track of as well as the DM. I am big on roll play with just enough combat to keep up the tempo. There are some good ideas being tossed about on this thread. As Pictors stated as a DM you make up a lot of stuff as you go along. If I am running the game and players are spending a lot of time crunching numbers and looking up stuff that is a bad sign. Keep the action flowing and advance the story. So yes I am leaning toward the idea that less is more. On the flip side having all the books, modules etc., gives the game master ready made materials so you can spend more time on designing the scenario than having to write up everything. I have much to ponder. |
CATenWolde | 30 Jun 2016 9:18 a.m. PST |
I started with the Holmes Blue Box (Basic D&D) and played a lot of AD&D (1e and 2e), and like you recently came back to D&D with my teenage children. A did dabble in the intervening years, and have kept up on the OSR movement (authors taking advantage of the 3e SRD to write "clones" or variants of the D&D rules). You have a *very* wide variety to choose from these days. Basic D&D: the classic Moldvay B/X is faithfully replicated for free in the Labyrinth Lord rules. There is also an add-on that allows you to incorporate the most popular PC options from AD&D into the Basic D&D framework of LL (as many of us did back in the day). Basic D&D variant: I really like "Beyond the Wall", an OSR variant of B/X that has a fantastic character creation system that meshes the PC's into a starting village, and also innovative scenario and campaign design tools. AD&D 1e: these rules are also faithfully replicated for free, in the OSRIC rules. AD&D 2e hasn't been popular with the OSR crowd, but there are some clones out there if you want to look. AD&D variant: The "Adventurer, Conqueror, King" rules are a variant and expansion of AD&D 1e, with an incredibly detailed domain management system built in, if that sort of higher level appeals. 3e/3.5e/Pathfinder: these are still readily available (and of course Pathfinder is actively published). Core 3e is close enough to TSR era D&D that you could probably adapt pretty easily … but why, when there are other options to play the actual style you want to? I find Pathfinder immensely too thick and complex, but if you like that approach then it is 3e on steroids. Pathfinder does have a great starter set though, for around $20. USD 4e: not the D&D you remember at all, don't go there. ;) 5e: Although I was a doubter, 5e has won me over. It really does let you play in the same style as older D&D, but with many improvements (or evolutions/additions). The books are expensive, BUT there is a fantastic starter set for $20 USD that includes everything you need to play through lvl 5, along with a very good adventure. The full "Basic D&D" version of the rules is also available for free. There's a ton more out there – if any of these sound good, there are probably more like them for free or cheap these days. Cheers, Christopher |
CATenWolde | 30 Jun 2016 9:22 a.m. PST |
From what you said above (while I was typing) I would recommend checking out the Labyrinth Lord clone of Basic D&D, and "Beyond the Wall". They sound closest to what you are describing in play style – although 5e can be played very closely to Basic D&D in style as well. All of the old TSR era modules are available on pdf for cheap as well, so there is a wealth of supporting material (as well as new stuff coming out for both LL and BtW). |
Goober | 30 Jun 2016 9:41 a.m. PST |
5e D&D is a good choice -best of all of them so far, I think. I also like Savage Worlds a lot and played a fantasy campaign inspired by Skyrim with my young nephews that was a sackful of fun. |
Sloth1963 | 30 Jun 2016 9:46 a.m. PST |
Let me put in a plug for Heroes & Other Worlds by Christopher Brandon. It's a revamp of the Fantasy Trip system (Melee and Wizard) from Metagaming with some Basic D&D goodness thrown in. The game plays fast and allows a lot of room for creative GMs to frolic. heroworlds.blogspot.com |
Sgt Slag | 30 Jun 2016 11:47 a.m. PST |
I'd suggest gaming the rules set/version you are most familiar with… Older versions of AD&D/D&D are available as PDF's, for little money. You only need print what you need. Alternatively, nearly all versions are available in hardcover's, off of e-Bay, Amazon, and other sites, for very little cash. I play 2nd AD&D with my sons. I picked up the core books for both 1st, and 2nd, for all three of them, for little money. Condition varies a bit, but none are terrible. My sons knew nothing of D&D. They were a clean slate. I could have taught them any version I chose. I chose 2nd, because that is what I knew the best, and liked the best. They enjoy it immensely because I put on an entertaining, challenging, and fun game for them. The rules should disappear into the background, while the story comes to the forefront, IMO. If they are into crunch, and leveling PC's, and they don't care about stories and such, then I got nothing. Sorry. Cheers! |
Centurio Prime | 30 Jun 2016 11:50 a.m. PST |
I'm an old school D&D fan, and recently bought 5E. Its really nice and harkens back to the old days. Don't pay $150 USD, check the prices on Amazon, they have some good discounts on the core books. Your players can download the Players pdf for free. I haven't gotten the Monster Manual yet, instead I am using the DM's basic rules pdf, which is essentially a bare bones Monster Manual. So really you can get by at first with buying the Players and DMs guides which is around $60 USD plus postage on Amazon. |
Centurio Prime | 30 Jun 2016 11:53 a.m. PST |
To reiterate more of what Christopher said, you can get the Starter set for $12 USD or so on Amazon and the adventure in there is actually pretty good, covering levels 1-5 with many different sub quests. |
USAFpilot | 30 Jun 2016 12:07 p.m. PST |
As mentioned, free download of 5th edition. |
kallman | 30 Jun 2016 2:38 p.m. PST |
Yep I am looking at the free download 5th Ed D&D and I forgot to mention that I picked up the Starter set at a discount at Half Price Books the other day and it does have a good adventure in there. However it had next to no information on how to create characters and only had five pre-done characters. With the links for the free basic Dungeon Master's Guide and the Player's Handbook I am suddenly sold on going with 5th ed at least for now. If the players turn out to like the campaign and I get a sense that we will be able to meet regularly then I will pony up an Amazon Prime account in order to the discounted books. Besides I would rather spend the money on buying Bones figures. Reaper Miniatures is in Denton which is part of the Dallas Metro Plex and they carry everything in their catalog there. |
Mardaddy | 30 Jun 2016 7:56 p.m. PST |
Regarding Pathfinder – everything you need to play are all free access on the Paizo site. No money required, cell phone, tablet or laptop needed for that. Myself, even though it is available for free, I'm 51yrs old and I like books, so I bought books. But almost all the 20-somethings I play with use their tablets or even cell phones to look up specifics instead of buying a book or multiple books. Looking back – I would indeed stick with Core Rule Book only games… the supplement bloat, "new shiny," and power creep is really out of hand. |
Doctor X | 01 Jul 2016 12:02 a.m. PST |
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wminsing | 01 Jul 2016 4:35 a.m. PST |
Another possibility is Microlite20: PDF link It's a super-stripped down version of D&D 3/3.5; the advantage is that while it is extremely simple it is also basically compatible with nearly any 3/3.5 adventure, monster, etc. So you can cull the vast amount of free/cheap OGL stuff for material. Also mostly works with Pathfinder with very little adjustment needed. -Will |
Patrick R | 01 Jul 2016 5:19 a.m. PST |
I played D&D in many of its forms. AD&D has that old school appeal, but it's very messy and 2nd edition seemed to be a competition to see who could come up with the most disjointed sub-rulesystems possible. D&D rules Cyclopedia is a simpler game, but it's all very well integrated and a sense of true progression. By comparison, AD&D plateaued at level 10 with some allowance for characters to level around 15. If you like 3.x and its variants you can check out Pathfinder. Not a fan of 4e, I see it as a different game, for a different crowd. 5e so far has managed to capture the AD&D feel with far superior mechanics and has finally learned to keep the curve under control so that higher level characters are competent without going into ridiculous numbers. Either pick up the Cyclopedia (PDF or used) or look into 5e. |
dilettante | 02 Jul 2016 3:10 p.m. PST |
Any rules (including the ones in your head-:) will do as long as players have a good idea of what their characters can/can't do without dying. Can a fighter jump over a 10 foot pit without falling in? Is it a good idea for the halfling to try to climb a wall? Can my thief pick a pocket without getting caught? Do your friends have a physical set of rules to lend you? For example I have original D&D,Adv.D&D,2nd ed.,3rd ed.,and the player rules for 3.5.(I am old-:). As The Beatles sang; I get by with a little help from my friends… |
freewargamesrules | 14 Jul 2016 1:50 p.m. PST |
Another +1 for Basic Fantasy and the printed books are dirt cheap on Amazon. |