"Late Ironclad/ Pre-Dreadnought Rules" Topic

Hi

This is my first proper post on this forum, although I have been a "lurker" for a while.

I've been working on a set of rules for ironclads and pre-dreadnoughts (the link is below). Id like some feedback or extra ideas on how to improve them.

I've played a few games with them so far at my local wargame club so they are still very much in the early stages of development.

Many thanks in advance for any feedback (both positive and negative welcome).
link

You have certainly put a lot of work into these good looking rules.

By way of what I mean as constructive criticism, I would suggest some form of simplified gunnery for fleet actions to speed things along. I am particularly looking for rules to game the Russo-Japanese War in 1:6000 scale without undue complication.

Well done.

Alan

It might help if you didn't describe a 'typical' pre-dreadnought on one page and say they were all much the same – then have the plan of one that was very different to your description on the following page.

I think written orders are a thing of the past, most players now want a more innovative form of movement. To be honest, much of the rules have an 'old school' feel – OK if you like that but not for me.

Layout is good, clear statements of the rules (I'd check a few spelling errors that have slipped through though) and good tables.

You might also think about how effective guns were and not just go by their calibre. A 12inch in 1880 and in 1900 were very different guns in both range and hitting power. Sadly an 'abstraction' that many rules make in this period and yet it distorts the combat effectiveness of many later vessels.

yep – for me the spelling errors were a major turn-off. It tends to suggest that other errors lurk within.
Frex:

"She was also fitted with an advanced modern steam
turbine engine making here one of the fasted battleships afloat."

p4

Sorry – I should have also added that I have a number of other comments you may find useful… for example:

"The size of the bases does not matter but it helps if all ships on both fleets are based using similar sizes as arcs of fire are measured from the corners of each ship's base."

In which case the base sizes do matter. So better to suggest that where both fleets base sizes are 'similar' then arcs of fire measured this way are fine.. and suggest a slightly different mechanism for different base sizes between fleets.

After a quick pass, here are my thoughts.

1) Actual rules are only about 8 pages. Add another 4 for special weapons and stuff. 12 total. Not bad at all. I prefer my rules short and to the point. So nicely done.

2) Do get someone who is not you to proof read. Typos Seem to bother some greatly. Not so much me if the rules are written clearly which your set seems to be.

3) Written orders do not seem to be overly intrusive. They are from a bygone era and not my favorite but you've at least presented them in a way that is very simple to grasp.

4) Range estimation is not something I'd ever go with simply because someone can lose a game because they are not very good at estimating things.

It is a nice looking and workable set of rules.

John

Many thanks for the comments. Plenty of ideas and suggestions. Im going to make a few changes and get playtesting.

I have to admit that the typos are a bit embarassing for me, especially as my day job is as an editor for the Admiralty List of Radio Signals (a nautical publication)!

Thanks again for taking the time to check out my work :)

Hi all.

I've been working on a few amendments to my rules following the feedback I received on this thread.

Firstly I've read through the rules again and corrected a multitude of typos, so hopefully following a proof read by someone else they should be correct (any proof reading volunteers appreciated, I can send the original word doc for markup.)

It might help if you didn't describe a 'typical' pre-dreadnought on one page and say they were all much the same – then have the plan of one that was very different to your description on the following page

To be honest many of the pictures were just added to give the document aesthetic appeal, I have removed the offending image.

I think written orders are a thing of the past, most players now want a more innovative form of movement. To be honest, much of the rules have an 'old school' feel – OK if you like that but not for me.

Although not to everyone's taste I rather like the more "old school" rules as long as they still provide a reasonable fast flowing playable game (I own copies of Phil Dunn's Sea Battle Games, the Fletcher Pratt rules and Fred Jane's naval wargame etc.) I also feel that written orders prompt players to put more thought into how and where they are moving their ships, thinking more strategically and less impulsively.

You might also think about how effective guns were and not just go by their calibre. A 12inch in 1880 and in 1900 were very different guns in both range and hitting power.

Still an issue i'm working on. I've tried to avoid making the gunnery too complicated however the different performances of various guns of the same caliber is an important factor that I had not initially considered.

"The size of the bases does not matter but it helps if all ships on both fleets are based using similar sizes as arcs of fire are measured from the corners of each ship's base."

I've amended this section to be more prescriptive over the base sizing issue.

4) Range estimation is not something I'd ever go with simply because someone can lose a game because they are not very good at estimating things.

I used range estimation in order to attempt the lack of accuracy when using guns in the period before rangefinders became common place and much more reliance was placed on the skills of the gunnery officers. I have now included an alternative method of determining hits by dice rolls that dos not use estimation that can be used if players wish.

Thanks again for all the feedback, really helping me a lot. Hopefully these should develop into a good set of rules.

Rory

Didn't realize how long my previous post was as I was wring it…

Downloaded – when I get time I'll read them and get back.