The Young Guard | 27 Jun 2016 10:47 a.m. PST |
My knowledge of the Napoleonic wars is not as good as I thought so I'm going to tap into your knowledge! 1) did the 23rd (and other fusiliers) have colours in battle? 2) what shako did the Portuguese have at Salamanca? 3) did the Spanish have the British type uniforms or the older ones at Salamanca? 4) did foreign regiments like the Irish legion and the Swiss use French line or light uniforms? 5) what good books are there on the peninsular war? Thanks for your help everyone in advance. Just a bit stumped at the moment. |
Hafen von Schlockenberg | 27 Jun 2016 10:53 a.m. PST |
As to number 5,a discussion just dropped off the Home Page: TMP link |
138SquadronRAF | 27 Jun 2016 11:14 a.m. PST |
My knowledge of the Napoleonic wars is not as good as I thought so I'm going to tap into your knowledge!1) did the 23rd (and other fusiliers) have colours in battle? Why not? By the Peninsular War this is more an historical title rather than anything else. They did, however, have shakoes rather than those short AWI genadier headgear you see in some illustrations. 2) what shako did the Portuguese have at Salamanca? The tombstone fronted version or stovepipe. That said I painted mine in stovepipe. 3) did the Spanish have the British type uniforms or the older ones at Salamanca? They're basic British supplied ones, but that's not the whole story. You'll not be using the bicorns by 1812, some will be British with stovepike shakoes, blue uniforms – dark blue jackets and light blue trouses, for line and all light blue light). Some will be in tartleton helmets and uniforms in brown, blue or grey. Some will be in brown, blue or grey uniforms and top hat. Some of these unforms were pretty basic lacking turnbacks. The Spanish uniforms in the early part of the war is difficult enough, based on the issuing of three uniforms in 5 years between 1800 and 1805. Once central authority collapses it become a nightmare or playground depending on what you want. link You want volumes 2 and 3 as a good starting point. 4) did foreign regiments like the Irish legion and the Swiss use French line or light uniforms? The cut is French, so you can use French figures. The Irish as basically green jack and trousers with yellow collar piping: link link The Swiss have red coats: link |
138SquadronRAF | 27 Jun 2016 11:59 a.m. PST |
If you're interested in the earlier period these books are a must on the Spanish Army: TMP link TMP link |
Ed von HesseFedora | 27 Jun 2016 1:20 p.m. PST |
4. The "Foreign Regiments" used French light infantry uniform. The Swiss used line uniform, except for the Valais and Neuchatel battalions, which I think wore light infantry cut. |
138SquadronRAF | 27 Jun 2016 1:43 p.m. PST |
Some Spanish in British uniforms here as late war: link link Mid period uniforms here:
link |
42flanker | 27 Jun 2016 11:00 p.m. PST |
did the 23rd (and other fusiliers) have colours in battle? Some confusion arises, perhaps from the fact that the Fusilier regiments did not refer to their junior commissioned officers as Ensigns but as 2nd Lieutenants. In the 7th Royal Fusiliers the situation differed more radically as all their subalterns were Lieutenants (although on paper that situation fluctuated in the early 1800s). The reason for this distinction is slightly obscure. While in the early 'Historical Record of the Seventh or The Royal Fusiliers' it is suggested that it derives from the original role of the fusiliers in guarding the artillery, it may have more to do with the fact that the Fusiliers regarded themselves effectively as grenadiers all, with grenadier caps and shoulder wings being the regulation dress of all companies, and in grenadier companies of infantry regiments the junior subalterns were designated 2nd Lieutenants, not Ensigns. Nonetheless, Fusilier regiments were, to all intents and purposes, regiments of the line and carried a pair of colours like the rest. |
Jemima Fawr | 28 Jun 2016 5:42 a.m. PST |
Here's my take on the Irish Legion. Sources were an article in 'Empires, Eagles & Lions' and another by John Cook on 'The Napoleon Series'. There is a difference of opinion on cuff-details. One says green pointed cuffs, piped primrose yellow, while the other says green round cuffs with yellow piping and yellow cuff-flap. I went for the pointed variety. White breeches are also recorded. Note that the centre company pompom colours were yellow, green, sky blue and violet ('lie-de-vin'). I think (?) they're presented in the correct order for the 1st to 4th Companies. Note that I fancied doing the 1st Battalion with the Eagle, though it was actually the 2nd Battalion that was in Spain. They should therefore have a spearhead finial and the simpler fannion, which was a plain, unfringed emerald green flag, with a single large harp in gold-yellow.
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The Young Guard | 28 Jun 2016 2:12 p.m. PST |
Thanks everyone for your help. Gives me a lot to play with. Jemima. They look awesome! What scale and figures are they? |
Jemima Fawr | 28 Jun 2016 2:41 p.m. PST |
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TeodoroReding | 29 Jun 2016 7:22 a.m. PST |
1) did the 23rd (and other fusiliers) have colours in battle? Yes – but wores stovepipe shakos, as mentioned 2) what shako did the Portuguese have at Salamanca? Stovepipe 3) did the Spanish have the British type uniforms or the older ones at Salamanca? I have been heavily into Spanish for 40 years, have 3,000 infantry: have NEVER come across a genuine reference to use of the "British" uniform with stovepipes. All contemporary references and genuine plates that mention/show shakoes state/show bell topped shakoes like French, from 1808 right through to 1814 (with 2 or 3 exceptions: Muerte Regt 1809; Majorca skirmishers dressed as 95th in 1813; possibly Tiradores de Doyle some time in 1812-14 – all regts sponsored by Britain). However, Carlos D'Espagna's brigade (at Salamanca) had been kitted out in all blue uniforms with tarletons. That's very much an exception. 4) did foreign regiments like the Irish legion and the Swiss use French line or light uniforms? Swiss wore pretty much regulation French line – with red coat and different facing colours edged white (black, dark blue, light blue and a 4th I forget). Irish Legion wore a Light infantry style as illustrated. |
138SquadronRAF | 29 Jun 2016 8:07 a.m. PST |
Here is an interesting site on the Spanish: link |