"Modern US TOE questions" Topic

The US mech infantry battalion TOE for 1983 to present lists a SP mortar section- what does the US use for SP mortars now?

It also lists an AT section comprised of M901 ITV's. Are these still in use or have they been replaced?

We used the M106 mortar carrier, a variant of the M113. It had a 4.2" mortar. Many NG units still had the M125 in the early 80s. The M125 was the same vehicle with an 81 mm mortar.

The ITV was a stopgap measure to beef up the infantry AT defense until the Bradley was fielded. Each infantry company had 2 of them initially, then with the Division 86 TO&E, they were consolidated into a single AT company of 12 ITVs. As battalions converted to the M2, the ITV company was converted to a 4th infantry company.

So the TOW missile on the Bradleys has taken over the task of the M901's?

Also, are those M106's still in use in today's US Army? Or have they been replaced?

The ITV was replaced by the Bradley.
The 1064 (still based on the M113 chassis) is the mortar carrier for M2/M1 units and the M1129 is the mortar carrier in Stryker units.

The M1064 is an improved M106 with a 120 mm mortar. There are probably a few M106s left in depots and reserve units.

To go along with what Cold Steel and Rakkasan has stated.

I posted this on another thread when asked about Mech MTO&E … '84-'90 …

Mech Plt = 3 11 Man Squads + Plt HQ Section – 4-6 men, 4 M113s, 1 per Squad/HQ.

Mech Co. = 3 Plts [as above]

Plus 2 Co Cmd Tracks[M113s] > 1 Cdr's, 1 XO's + 1 HMMWV, 1 M35 2& 1/2 Ton Cargo Truck [with M2 50 cal.] with trailer.

14 M113s[each with M2 .50 cal.]Total in Mech Co.

1 Anti-Armor Section = 2 M901 ITVs[each with M60D MG]

Attached from HHC -

Medics with each Plt & Co HQ.

Manit./Recovery Section = 1 M113, 1 M578 VTR.

Attachments from outside BN – Based on mission …

1 Fire Spt Tm in M113 from FA BN. Forward Observers … 4-6 men. We usually always had FST attached.

1 CBT ENG Squad in M113 – 11 + CEs

1 ADA Team [Stinger] 2-3 men attached to Co HQ

When Cross Attached to Armor Bn. Usually trade 1 Mech Plt for 1 M60 MBT Plt.

I forgot we had an M113 Medic track from HHC's Medic Plt. Along with the Medics attached to the Inf Plts.

The M125, an M113 mounting an 81mm Mortar was removed from the Company. With the conversion from the "H" to "J" series [IIRC] MTO&E. The M125s' 81s were turned in to Div. And with the "H" to "J" conversion. Which occurred in @ '84-'85 (?) … old fart
The Mech Plt went from 5 APCs to 4.

And the Mech Cos. in Mech Bns went from 3 Inf Cos. to 4. The M125s were used for these additional tracks required by the "J" series MTO&E. Thick plywood was mounted over the place where the 81 was. Making the M125 a "defacto" M113.

The Bn still had an M106, the M113 mounting 4.2 in. Mortar, Plt. For direct support of the Infantry as always. Never had any 120s. They may have come later ?

Also, an E Company was created with this conversion. It was an Anti-Armor Company with 3 or 4 M901 ITV Plts. And the Infantry Co. still kept it's M901 ITV Section. So as you can see, the US Mech Infantry Bn was prepared to "go bear hunting" WP AFVs. [Or Nork AFVs in the ROK]

The Bn also had a Scout Plt with 3 M113s and 3 M901 ITVs. These ITVs were not so much for killing AFVs. As they were there to get the Scout Plt "out of trouble". With the waves of WP Armor that would roll across the NATO borders. [or the Korean border !]

Cross Attaching with Armor was a standard. With this happening very often. On one Op, the Tank Bn had 2 Mech Inf Cos. crossed attached. And keeping two of it's Tank Cos. The two Tank Plts were cross attached, one each to the Mech Bns where the Mech Plts came from.

As a sidebar. The standard was you always cross-attached your best Plt or Co. to the other unit. I was always crossed-attached. But I'm sure it was that my Bn Cdr just wanted to get rid of me. And make me the Tank Bn Cdr's problem !

The Tank Bn was unique that it had 3 M60A1 Cos. and 1 M1IP Co. … The Tank Bn always kept the M1IP Co.

So as you can see, yes, the MTO&E conversion didn't always match the on paper MTO&E with the actual On Hand MTO&E. Until things were "stabilized" to match the "J" MTO&E, there were shortages. In men and equipment. I remember in the ROK. Even with the M125s to M113s "conversions". The Bn was still short M113s.

Thanks for sharing, Legion.

Where you mention the platoons went from 5 x vehicles to 4 x, I presume that is for the M113s, and not the mortars. Is that correct?

1 x HQ vehicle – M113, and 3 x 5 vehicle M113 platoons – total of 16.

Also, does that apply to the M60A1s as well, at about the same time, e.g. going from 17 tanks per company (2 in their HQ) to 14?

Can't recall when that switchover happened during the Cold War, but suspect it was at about your time frame mentioned, e.g. the early 1980s.

Finally, and just for completeness, IIRC, the M125 and/or M106 platoons each had 6 x mortar tracks. Just wanted to confirm that too. Any other vehicles in/attached to the mortar units as forward observers, supply, security, etc.?

Where you mention the platoons went from 5 x vehicles to 4 x, I presume that is for the M113s, and not the mortars. Is that correct?

I believe that is correct …

1 x HQ vehicle – M113, and 3 x 5 vehicle M113 platoons – total of 16.

That was when there were 5 M113s/Plt. With the switch to 4 M113s/Plt …

You had 3 11 man Squads w/M113s + 1 Plt Ldr track = 4

4 M113s/Plt x 3 Plts = 12
+ 2 Co CP M113s – 1 for the Co Cdr, & 1 for Co XO/2IC

12 Plt M113s + 2 Cmd M113s = 14

Also, does that apply to the M60A1s as well, at about the same time, e.g. going from 17 tanks per company (2 in their HQ) to 14?

Yes

Can't recall when that switchover happened during the Cold War, but suspect it was at about your time frame mentioned, e.g. the early 1980s.

The switch from the H Series MTOE to the J Series MTOE was about '84-'85 When I was in the ROK.

When I got back to a Mech Bde at Benning, '86, after I left the ROK. The Bde pretty much already J Series.

Finally, and just for completeness, IIRC, the M125 and/or M106 platoons each had 6 x mortar tracks. Just wanted to confirm that too.

IIRC the M125 was 3/Plt + 1 M113 FDC. 1 M125 Plt/Co.

The M106 Plt was a Bn asset with 4 M106s + 1 M577 PL Cmd Track/FDC.

Any other vehicles in/attached to the mortar units as forward observers, supply, security, etc.?

The Mech Co. had these Wheeled Vehicles organic to its MTOE – 1 HMMWV, 1 M35 2& 1/2 Ton Cargo Truck [with M2 50 cal.] with trailer.
We traded the classic M151 1/4 Jeep with trailed for the HMMWV about '88. IIRC we kept the trailer for the HMMWV to tow like the M151 did.

This is what was attached to the Mech Co. :

Attached from HHC -

Medics with each Plt & Co HQ. 1 M113 Medic track from HHC's Medic Plt. Along with the Medics attached to the Inf Plts.

Manit./Recovery Section = 1 M113, 1 M578 VTR.

Attachments from outside BN – Based on mission …

1 Fire Spt Tm in M113 from FA BN. Forward Observers … 4-6 men. We usually always had FST attached.

The FST M113 moved with the Co. Cdr's M113.

The Medic M113, the Manit. Recovery M578 VTR & M113 moved as part of the Co. HQ/CP.
Once things got rolling these vehicles generally operated with the XO.

The HMMWV was used by the Co. 1SG or the Co. Cdr based on missions. The M35 Cgo Trk was the supply truck with Supply Sgt and Driver. Who also assisted with supply, chow, etc.

As far as M125/M106 security, they were generally behind the Mech Co(s). So they had to pull their own security. Unless they laagered with a Mech Co., etc. … But generally many assets were dispersed … for obvious reasons. And mortars rarely saw their targets. They were called in using indirect fire methods. The Grunt NCOs, Officers or FST were the "FOs" …

Remember the M106 Plt was a Bn asset from HHC. The 4.2(@ 6000m) out ranged the 81mm(@ 3000m). And with better commo with Bn, the FST etc., the 81mm became obsolete along with the facts it lacked range and firepower. As your FST could call in 155s + from FA Bns. The 4.2 was kept because some time you don't have FA support but that was rare. However the 4.2's fires can be coordinated by the FST at either Co. or Bn level*. So you could have 4.2 and 155 fires on a target(s).

*The Bn HQ has a FST TM Chief attached to it from an FA Bn. Where the Co. FSTs came from. And if you were lucky you had a Tac Air Control Party [TACP] from an ARMY Gunship Bn and/or USAF Squadron.

Hope that helps …

OK, so you're talking Mechanized.

The rules are very different for Light and Stryker units.

Strykers have 3x 9-man infantry squads and a 7-man weapons squad per platoon, each with their own Stryker truck. The infantry squad has a Javelin and a DMR (available, not necessarily packing), the weapons squad has 2x M240s. I think the platoon leader rides with Weapons Squad. LT dismounts, PSGT stays in a truck.

The Stryker company has 3x platoons, plus a 2-tube mortar section with both 120mm in the trucks and 60mm for dismounted ops, but not enough bodies to feed both at the same time. There's also nominally a 3-gun MGS platoon, but those have proven to be unreliable crap and are getting dropped. Company also has a dedicated Sniper team of 3 men, I think they usually ride with the FISTV or in a Humvee.

Battalion has a full mortar platoon, with 81mm for dismounted ops, but again, not enough guys to feed both the 120mm in the truck and the 81mm at the same time.

Yep … Strykers were still on a drawing board(?) or not thought about yet(?) … back in the '80s. We never heard about it. The M2/3 Bradley was the Big news among us Grunts !

Thanks for the additional details, Legion.

I really appreciate it.

Surprised to see those M151s soldiering on so late into the Cold War, but I guess they had to, for lack of anything else until the Humvees arrived.

There was a period in the late eighties where the M151s were replaced by M1008 pickups and M1009 Blazers, both essentially off the shelf Chevy products known as CUCVs which stood for Commercial Utility Cargo Vehicles pronounced Cuck-vee. Basically worthless as tactical vehicles as they were underpowered and too fragile for constant off road and field use.

I remember my Squadron in Germany quit replacing rear windows on the Blazers because the troopers broke them faster than they could be replaced. Did not make for good times during winter gunnery at Graf and Hohenfels!

Glad to help Mako ! The year before we got HMMWVs, an upgrade team showed up. They put roll cages and thick nylon nets on the Jeeps. So to get in the rear sometimes you had to climb over the cage. Was sometimes a pain in the ! Some of the Jeeps' metal body/frame was too old/thin, etc., to mount the cages. So they weren't modified.

I guess they wanted to improve crew survivability, which certainly would help with the upgrade. But like I said, about a year later we turned in our Jeeps for HMMWVs.
So I was glad they were thinking about our survivability. But seemed like a bit of a waste, too little, too late.

I don't know if they gave the Jeeps to the NG/RES., or what ?

My Jeep in the ROK was sunk crossing a stream in Feb. COLD ! We towed in out with the winch on the front of an M35. The mechanics fixed her and she was rolling the next day.

I didn't feel too bad though. The XO sunk his CUCV[that Scout mentioned] in the same place the next day. Had to put up stakes with markers so no one else did the same. Never really liked him !

My Jeep also fell off a paddy dike road into the paddy.
Thank God it was dry ! Just rolled her back on her wheels and we were rolling again !
Liked my Jeeps …

And as Scout posted the CUCVs were issued too, during that time frame as well. But not to our Infantry or Tank Cos. They were basically a Chevy SUV or Dodge Pick-up[You could still see DODGE stamped into the trail gate] with heavier suspension and a radio mount. Painted Camo … And I agree with Scout's CUCV comments !

At Ft. Drum, NY saw a CUCV Pick-up that got it's front end run over by an M60 MBT. In a heavily wooded area along a trail or fire brake. Missed the driver's legs by about a "foot". The entire front end, engine, etc., was about 6-8 inches tall or less. It would have done worse to a "tiny" Jeep … But being smaller, might have missed her entirely …

During our DRS tests at Fort Hood , I was assigned to the mortar evaluation section since as a tank BN HHC XO, I had control of a mortar platoon for action.
The Mech. Infantry battalions insisted on maintaining the 81mm mortar so they could deploy them outside the carrier. Most of their mortar gunnery was conducted with dismounted tubes. My tubes with the tanks and the cavalry were 4.2" tubes and we left them mounted during gunnery and training support. We always support night gunnery operations for tank live fire. We used mainly flares. During our gunnery were preferred smoke rounds since they were effective, long lasting for adjustments but would mix them with HE as well.

We always made fun of the infantry with pea shooters which could not deter a tank assault which was our main training purpose.

And check this link as well.
PDF link

The 4.2 has about twice range of the 81. Another reason it was no longer used by Mech after the conversion. But Rudy made a good point. Mortars can fire smoke and illum rounds also.

Before we had night sights for our M47 Dragon MAW. We would have to call in illumination rounds to make target acquisition not only better but possible. For the M47 to engage.