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"Battle of Gibraltar" Topic


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Balthazar Marduk Inactive Member24 Jun 2016 12:17 p.m. PST

Avoiding the politics of the day as much as possible, how would Spain seize Gibraltar and what would the UK do to get it back?

I'm about six centons from placing some orders with Empress.

Personal logo David Manley Supporting Member of TMP24 Jun 2016 12:40 p.m. PST

"what would the UK do to get it back?"

Invoke NATO's Article 5

basileus6624 Jun 2016 1:18 p.m. PST

No, she wouldn't.

I doubt that she would act militarily to force Cataluņa to stay in Spain, so imagine for Gibraltar.

I think it is more probable that Gibraltar tries to become an independent country than Spain trying to recover her by force.

A second Spanish Civil War, though… well, it is more probable today than it was four years ago.

Tgunner24 Jun 2016 1:55 p.m. PST

A second civil war? The last one was between conservatives and liberals/socialists/communists. Who would this one be between?

Balthazar Marduk Inactive Member24 Jun 2016 2:39 p.m. PST

Liberals/socialists/communists versus communists/socialists/liberals.

basileus6624 Jun 2016 2:52 p.m. PST

A rematch? Nah!

Tgunner24 Jun 2016 3:14 p.m. PST

So the Left vs. the Really Left?

willlucv Inactive Member24 Jun 2016 3:17 p.m. PST

The rule of thumb with UK overseas possessions is that if they are under UK protection then an attack/invasion would be dealt with, either diplomatically (the former) or militarily (probably the latter). Of course if they want to leave or become part of another country then you'd probably need to have a referendum in order to achieve this.

I could see potential for a military scenario with Gibraltar. In fact I believe the Royal Marines once accidentally 'invaded' Spain. A potential diplomatic incident was averted by a local policeman who basically told them to Bleeped text off.

Balthazar Marduk Inactive Member24 Jun 2016 6:16 p.m. PST

Well, I guess the Falklands would be a decent example of that. The British Armed Forces isn't at Cold War levels of mobilization anymore, but neither would they have to cross the entire width of the planet Earth to get to Gibraltar.

I'm imagining a largely naval and air based engagement with smaller forces of ground based troops doing any hypothetical fighting in and around Gibraltar itself because of the space to work with.

Actually, looking at Google Earth, I'm not really convinced the British would have an easy time taking it back, if it's even possible.

Red358425 Jun 2016 2:10 a.m. PST

the Spanish invasion incident was back in 2002 when the marines successfully stormed the wrong beach during an exercise…apparently "lessons were learned"…

link

Badgers25 Jun 2016 3:53 a.m. PST

Yes, NATO would have to decide whether to function or break up. NATO breaking up would be a good opportunity for Putin to mobilise… sounds like WW3.

Badgers25 Jun 2016 3:54 a.m. PST

…But it would be simpler to ask the Gibraltarians if they wanted to rejoin Spain, as a very high percentage voted to remain in the EU.

basileus6625 Jun 2016 6:28 a.m. PST

Gibraltarians, if they are clever -and I think they are-, would be better by being an independent country than by joining Spain or remaining as a colony of the UK.

gunnerphil25 Jun 2016 6:35 a.m. PST

Basileus So maybe I need to get a Gibraltarian passport. Seriously I know of several expats looking at Spanish citizenship. Perhaps they should wait till after election.

Personal logo Weasel Supporting Member of TMP25 Jun 2016 10:09 a.m. PST

Side-stepping the politics, does anyone do modern Spanish infantry in…well.. any scale really?

Or are there any suitable substitutes if one isn't too fussy over the details?

GarrisonMiniatures Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member25 Jun 2016 10:21 a.m. PST

Gibraltar becoming an independent nation in both, NATO and the EU is the most sensible option. Which means it will never happen.

Gibraltar would be an excellent NATO naval base, the population do not want to be part of Spain, they do want to be in the EU. They are ruled fromt he UK through choice, not force because they feel that offers protection against Spanish rule.

basileus6625 Jun 2016 12:11 p.m. PST

does anyone do modern Spanish infantry in…well.. any scale really?

Totentanz Miniatures is preparing a range of modern Spanish infantry in 15mm, but it is for the 80s, I think, to use with Team Yankee game. It will include infantry, tanks and artillery. Take a look to their Facebook site for more info:

link

If you are not too picky you can use modern German army equiped with G36 and paint them with

Balthazar Marduk Inactive Member25 Jun 2016 2:40 p.m. PST

>Yes, NATO would have to decide whether to function or break up. NATO breaking up would be a good opportunity for Putin to mobilise… sounds like WW3.

The Turks and the Greeks fought over Cyprus, NATO didn't die then.

>…But it would be simpler to ask the Gibraltarians if they wanted to rejoin Spain, as a very high percentage voted to remain in the EU.

I think that could be a super fun board scenario, but not quite enough shooting and explosions for me.

>Side-stepping the politics, does anyone do modern Spanish infantry in…well.. any scale really? Or are there any suitable substitutes if one isn't too fussy over the details?

The only models I know of that pack around the G36 are Eureka's Germans, but you would have to be completely blind to the minor details.

I think the best way to go about it is the way Totentanz is. The Spanish Army had some pretty neat looking guns and gear back then.

Inkpaduta Inactive Member27 Jun 2016 10:55 a.m. PST

To play it, I would keep it simple and start with the Spanish invading and what British forces there defending. Worry about what the UK would do later.

Personal logo Weasel Supporting Member of TMP27 Jun 2016 5:10 p.m. PST

Might be a fun skirmish project to do. Really localized objectives like storming the post office or securing a radio tower, that sort of thing.

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