GeoffQRF | 24 Jun 2016 5:21 a.m. PST |
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Cold Warrior | 24 Jun 2016 7:25 a.m. PST |
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Mako11 | 24 Jun 2016 12:18 p.m. PST |
Looks great! Must replenish Paypal account. Of course, this begs the question, what about an ETA on the PBV-302 (and of course, that lovely M114)? |
GeoffQRF | 24 Jun 2016 1:55 p.m. PST |
I couldn't possibly announce that they are in the website until my official release day |
Mako11 | 24 Jun 2016 4:30 p.m. PST |
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Sudwind | 24 Jun 2016 5:58 p.m. PST |
Nice model. I prefer 1/285 scale, or even 3mm, for modern military games, but variety is the spice of life and lots of folks will like these 15mm S-tanks! |
GeoffQRF | 25 Jun 2016 6:34 a.m. PST |
1st July… (But you might like to go to our website and search for M114) |
Mako11 | 25 Jun 2016 7:29 a.m. PST |
Ah, so it's been updated since last I visited. Good to know. Thanks! |
Lion in the Stars | 25 Jun 2016 11:37 p.m. PST |
Huzzah!!!! Now, when will my tax return post? I need a few of both S-tanks and PBv302s for my Coldest War Swedes. Something like a dozen of each, I'll have to check my notes. |
Krieger | 26 Jun 2016 4:26 a.m. PST |
Happy to finally see it after returning from the midsummer events! A tank company would be 12 tanks and 3 302s. A mech company would be 9 302s and an AT-platoon.(In the PB63 organization valid throughout the cold war) The PB63M org took the mech platoons out of the tank companies and beefed up the mech platoons. Going to see if I can proxy the Bar-armour or fence, ordered a company anyway. |
GeoffQRF | 26 Jun 2016 5:38 a.m. PST |
So what would be in the anti-tank platoon? |
Krieger | 26 Jun 2016 7:34 a.m. PST |
The anti-tank platoon in the mech company had 4x either pvpjtgb 9031 or pvpjtgb 1111. The seemingly random letters would be for Pansarvärnspjästerrängbil. So four swedish jeeps carrying a 90mm recoilless rifle. The armoured infantry would go about doing their business with G3s (locally known and produced as AK 4) Carl-Gustavs (GRG M/48) and MAG 58s (Ksp 58) as well as the swedish Miniman LAW. |
Jemima Fawr | 26 Jun 2016 7:51 a.m. PST |
I need to finish those Swedish orbats… I've got pretty much all the info I need for brigade level and below, but the wartime strength and structure of divisions and local defence forces is a total headache. I might just stick up all the sub-brigade orgs anyway and work out the higher-level stuff later. |
Krieger | 26 Jun 2016 10:54 a.m. PST |
The brigades are pretty much the only thing easy to pick up on, since they had a standard orbat. Divisions could actually have different brigades and such, depending on scenario. The local defences are really interesting, but seldom follow as specific an organisation as the brigades as far as I can tell, as they can be more tailored to the terrain they are going to be fighting in, or the specific equipment thay had. But good luck with the headache! |
Jemima Fawr | 26 Jun 2016 11:27 a.m. PST |
Cheers Krieger. There is a very kind Swedish officer (ex-regular, but now serving in the reserves) who's been helping me out and has provided superb wartime-organised air force orbats, though he's a busy man and it is a massive project! Yes, those tgb 11 variants (and their larger cousins) are essential models for a Swedish wargames force, as they turn up everywhere! Even in the mechanised units, as you've pointed out. Go to it Geoff! ;) While we're on the subject: One strange feature of Swedish TO&Es that keeps cropping up is the (alleged) lack of an AFV in Company HQs. It seems very odd to have a tank company or mech company HQ equipped with tgbs rather than armoured vehicles and I can only assume that this is a mistake in my sources? |
Krieger | 26 Jun 2016 1:00 p.m. PST |
Happy to hear you've got some help in the midst of the madness! It's not a misstake! The CO and 2CO takes the place of regular commanders in the wartime organization! The tgb's are only for peacetime to allow training of more tank commanders (who are to replace fallen crew in wartime) same goes for mech commanders. Can't remember where the tgb's went in times of war, but can't imagine it would be hard finding a use for them. |
Jemima Fawr | 26 Jun 2016 2:34 p.m. PST |
Cheers Krieger. So is my supposition that they take the role of one of the platoon commanders correct? I would imagine that the tgbs stay behind with the company/battalion 'echelon' for use when the OC wants something to nip around in (e.g. visiting HQ/wife/mistress/pub/shops)? Most nations had one or two jeep-type vehicles or scout cars in a company HQ for those duties. |
GeoffQRF | 27 Jun 2016 1:38 a.m. PST |
The armoured infantry would go about doing their business with G3s (locally known and produced as AK 4) Carl-Gustavs (GRG M/48) and MAG 58s (Ksp 58) as well as the swedish Miniman LAW. So perhaps if I produced a few extra packs with CG, LAW and MG MAG you can use the cold war German range? |
Krieger | 27 Jun 2016 1:32 p.m. PST |
OOOPS!! Realized that the mech company has 2 pbv 302 for CO and 2 CO, for a total of 11 pbvs in the mech company! Platoon leader and 2PL however takes the place of vehicle commanders. Jemima: Not quite! The platoon leader and 2 PL actually takes the place of a further 2 tank commanders in each platoon, so two platoons go without any peace time tank commanders, and only two platoons would keep one each! The company commander is therefore not a platoon commander per say, but I would think he might have a thought or two about his closest platoons actions… Geoff: if you squint a bit I suppose. The swedish helmet cover for one is rather special. And it would have to be the Miniman rather than the M72 LAW |
Mako11 | 27 Jun 2016 2:02 p.m. PST |
I thought there were 13 x S-Tanks for a company. |
Krieger | 27 Jun 2016 2:11 p.m. PST |
Mako I remember reading that on some oob-site as well, haven't been able to verify it from any more trustworthy source though, while all swedish milhist-forums or former/currently serving personell I've heard from has heard of this regarding the PB 63 or any of it variant organizations. Could be an older org, or perhaps an odd local defence battalion. (Or an assumption that the CO would have a tank or some such) |
Jemima Fawr | 27 Jun 2016 3:09 p.m. PST |
Excellent stuff! Cheers Krieger! :) |
Daniel S | 27 Jun 2016 3:53 p.m. PST |
Nope, the company only had 12 tanks, 24 to a battalion and 72 in the complete brigade. Here is the page from the official brigade TOE book
In the old "PB58" organisation the CO and XO had had a troop of two tanks for their personal use while the company had 3 tank platoons each with 3 tanks. In the new PB63 organisation each company got an additional tank and the troop was expanded to a platoon. I've heard older officers mention that the actual plan was to increase the company strenght to 14 tanks but that this was cancled due to the cost of the S-tank and the lack of funding for the planned motorisation and mechanisation of the army that had been projected in the 1950's. How much of this is true and how much is grognard grumblings I can't say. But it would fit in with the general way the army worked at the time with units kept in existence despite obsolete or missing equipment as the hope was was that the "next time" the army would get the funds it needed. OF course that never happend and the army soldiered on with a very large orbat increasingly filled with out of date units. |
Krieger | 27 Jun 2016 4:02 p.m. PST |
Indeed the army had its hopes up! Even to the point of not actually disbanding brigades ordered to be disbanding, instead hiding them in the local defence forces as 'black brigades'. |
Daniel S | 27 Jun 2016 4:19 p.m. PST |
And it should be noted that while the brigades had a standardised TOE the way in which the way in which the brigades were trained and new equipment were introduce meant that in practice there were periods were there were a lot of non-standard deviations. For example according to the official TOE all armoured brigades had two AT-missile companies with TOW from the mid-1980's onward. (One 'old' Bofors Bantam company rearmed with TOW and a 2nd, 'new', TOW armed company). In reality the "old" companies were only rearmed with the TOW when the current soldiers were replaced with a new batch of conscripts. (Once the conscripts had complete the intial period of training they were discharged back to civilian life but remain as reservists with the same 1st line unit for a period of roughly 4-6 years. During those years they would be called up for refresher traing exercises at least once. The ideal was year 1: conscript training, year 2 or year 3 refresher training, year 4 final year during which new soldiers were trained.) So even though the TOW purchase was complete in the first years of the 1980's the armoured brigades only became fully TOW equipped around 1988-1989. I've not been able to find out if the men would have found the Bantam missiles they had trained on if they had been mobilized for service or if they would have found themselves stuck with new and completely unfamiliar equipment when they opened the doors to the depots. |
Daniel S | 27 Jun 2016 4:27 p.m. PST |
Oh yes, the infamous "6th armoured group" and it's brethren, given the political disinterest in the local defence level I wouldn't have been that surprised by news that the armed forces had kept the Swedish nuclear weapons program alive as some sort of "local defence" unit… |
Jemima Fawr | 28 Jun 2016 2:04 a.m. PST |
Cheers Daniel, This comes back to my earlier question – did one of the three tank platoons also function as the company HQ? |
GeoffQRF | 28 Jun 2016 3:41 a.m. PST |
The swedish helmet cover for one is rather special. This thing?
And it would have to be the Miniman rather than the M72 LAW Not massively different in 15mm ;-) |
Daniel S | 28 Jun 2016 4:53 a.m. PST |
Yes, the last pic shows how it was to be worn during an NBC attack, otherwise the "hood" was worn rolled up. During the 80's it became increasingly common to secure the roll and the "visor" with either tape or a piece of rubber tubing as the helmet covers were rather worn and the 60s/70s look shown in the first pic was considered unsoldierly by many but not all officers and men. youtu.be/rLAw6LgrsX8 gives a good idea of the various styles in use in a battalion that did not enforce a particular mode of wearing the cover. (Which a lot of units did.) |
Mako11 | 28 Jun 2016 10:21 a.m. PST |
Hmmm, I guess my Table Top Games TO&E book is incorrect, since it shows one S-Tank for the company HQ (only vehicle listed in it). 13 x S-Tanks and 3 x PBV-302s. |
GeoffQRF | 07 Jul 2016 7:30 a.m. PST |
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Mako11 | 07 Jul 2016 11:04 p.m. PST |
I like it! Thanks for sharing the pic. |