Mako11 | 22 Jun 2016 1:21 p.m. PST |
I suspect that most of the major roads in the Fulda Gap area, and surrounding regions were paved, even back in the 1960s and 1970s, but want to know about some of the more minor roadways and/or tracks in the region. Were most of those paved as well, or would some minor roads be gravel, or even dirt, back in the 1960s – 1980s? Presumably, over time, many might be more likely to be paved during the 1980s than the 1960s, but I'd like to know if that suspicion is accurate, or not. Any estimates, or breakdowns of the road network in the region are appreciated, if you can provide a rough percentage of each type of road present there: 1. multi-laned (2+ lanes) each way, paved; 2. two-laned, paved road (one way each); 3. gravel road; 4. and dirt road. |
Saber6 | 22 Jun 2016 1:31 p.m. PST |
IIRC our zone was mostly 2-4. There might have been one multi-lane route. Also IIRC, "Candy stripe" was 2 lane vs "hardball" which was paved and probably one lane. |
mckrok | 22 Jun 2016 1:49 p.m. PST |
Have you looked at the 1:50,000 scale map sheets of the area? They're pretty accurate and detailed. pjm |
Mako11 | 22 Jun 2016 2:01 p.m. PST |
No, I haven't seen any of those. Is there a decent source for them? Also, looking for rough percentage estimates of the road networks in the area, for items 1 – 4. |
Martian Root Canal | 22 Jun 2016 2:11 p.m. PST |
Look up the old SPI boardgame 'Fulda Gap' for an image of the map. Should help :) |
Oberlindes Sol LIC | 22 Jun 2016 2:19 p.m. PST |
I think that the US Geological Survey and the Library of Congress both have extensive collections of maps of all kinds, regions, and time periods. You might have to make an appointment, but it won't cost you anything other than a trip to Washington, DC. |
11th ACR | 22 Jun 2016 3:54 p.m. PST |
I would agree with Saber-6 I sent many months there. We stayed to the "Spider Trails" mainly. link
link Recommend you try Google Earth and check it out from above. The over all road network is still the same except that the the roads that were cut by the DDR have been reconnected. But overall there still the same. The only real roads that connected the two Germany's were the ones at boarder crossing points. |
Khusrau | 22 Jun 2016 4:52 p.m. PST |
By the 60's most of the roads near the border were sealed. Not necessarily so they could sustain massed tracked traffic. But wheeled at high speed. If you have ever seen the damage that tracks can do to even a sealed road, you would know you could pass a recce squadron, not a division. |
11th ACR | 23 Jun 2016 11:02 a.m. PST |
Also if you use Google Earth you can still easily seethe old Grenz (Boarder). Some areas that you may want to check out that I have many times are as follow: Area around the town of Rasdorf Germany would be the sector for A Troop 1/11th ACR. The area just West of Ostheim German would be the sector for 2/13th. Inf 3rd Brig. of the 8th ID and just north East of there would be the sector for Fox Troop 2/11th ACR. Below is a 1 over 50.000 map of Ostheim area.
These were my old units so the Battle positions and sector's of fire were very real to me.
Below is a 1 over 50.000 map of the area around Mackenzell Germany. this would be in 1/11th ACR sector. As you can see the Grenz is seen in the upper right corner. Note that on the 1 over 50.000 map you can see just about ever thing down to each building and lone trees in some cases.
Most of the road net works have not change from the 1970's – 1980's. There may be a few new buildings post cold war period and as I stated earlier the majority of roads that crossed the Grenz before the Cold War were cut by the D.D.R. / U.S.S.R. The official boarder crossings were at major road's (Autobahns) The smaller roads were cut at the Grenz and would be in decent condition once you got a few hundred meters from the Grenz. Also the same was true with most of the rail lines. they were cut at the Grenz and you still had a few that did cross but under the same slandered as the roads. The D.D.R. had a good high speed road that ran the length of the Grenz. lso some villages were split by the Grenz. And one thing that may slow down the Warsaw Pact forces would be there own boarder obstacles. Anti Vehicle Ditch, Fences, Mines Fields. I'm sure the had a plan to cross these with there engineers putting in a AVLB type vehicles over the Vehicle Ditch and Blade tanks clearing the other obstacles.
Also most of the road condition on the D.D.R. side were not as good as they were on the West German side. No $$$ to improve the roads bridges ect. after the fall of the D.D.R. I went over there to check out what it was like and it was pretty bad as far as there roads and bridges. Over all it was like they had not done much to upgrade after WW-II.
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Andy P | 24 Jun 2016 3:03 a.m. PST |
I remember our area being around Bad Driberg i think. |
CavScout8thCav | 25 Jun 2016 3:16 p.m. PST |
Man those maps bring back some awesome memories. |
11th ACR | 25 Jun 2016 7:54 p.m. PST |
I still have all the ones that were on my M3 Brad at the end of the Cold War. We had all the contingency maps for our boarder mission and follow-on missions (Retreat or Counter Attack). All were stored in 155 ammunition shipping tubes and hung from the ceiling of the vehicle. They told us to just throw them away one day. So I said the hell with that and saved them. They have come in real handy now, for WW-II or Cold War Gaming. |
Virginia Tory | 14 Sep 2016 10:30 a.m. PST |
"Also most of the road condition on the D.D.R. side were not as good as they were on the West German side. No $$$ to improve the roads bridges ect. after the fall of the D.D.R. I went over there to check out what it was like and it was pretty bad as far as there roads and bridges." No kidding! I went to Jena in 1990 and was flabbergasted by the misaligned concrete block autobahn and the cobblestoned exit ramps, nevermind the minor roads! |