Gunfreak | 22 Jun 2016 11:18 a.m. PST |
Why did British uniforms get so boring between SYW and AWI. Take the 23rd During the SYW, you had lots of blue. Even the breaches where blue. Big blue lappeles, big blue cufs with lace. Big blue turnbacks. Then by AWI, small cufs and lapels, white turnbacks. White breaches, while vests. And the only cool thing they had (bear skin) they didn't use. Even for other regiments the propper tricorne is cooler then the cocked hat of the AWI |
Herkybird | 22 Jun 2016 11:32 a.m. PST |
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ColCampbell | 22 Jun 2016 11:33 a.m. PST |
Two things probably – their allies the Prussians won big so their uniforms began to be copied and getting rid of all of the foo-faw-raw made the uniforms less expensive. Jim |
The Hound | 22 Jun 2016 11:36 a.m. PST |
Fashion changes just like in civilian dress cocked hats became more popular than tricones |
Gunfreak | 22 Jun 2016 11:41 a.m. PST |
Style and color should always trump cost. Also the prussians weren't all white on the breaches and vests. Some had straw. Others even yellow, pink and orange! So no excuse there to use white only! Just imagine British lines infantry in pink vests! Also technically the British won bigger then the prussian. Prussians got to survive. Britain got Canada and a lot of India I'm sure had they kept the cool uniforms of the SYW they would have won that little rebellion.
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Winston Smith | 22 Jun 2016 12:22 p.m. PST |
Because they knew wargamers would go blind trying to paint lace and mitre caps. |
historygamer | 22 Jun 2016 12:33 p.m. PST |
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RogerC | 22 Jun 2016 12:43 p.m. PST |
My understanding is that the fighting in the AWI forced the British to re-approach uniforms and do away with all the frills and fashions so that everything was more soldier proof for the fighting in the broken terrain of north America. |
historygamer | 22 Jun 2016 1:20 p.m. PST |
"Take the 23rd" "During the SYW, you had lots of blue. Even the breaches where blue. Big blue lappeles, big blue cufs with lace. Big blue turnbacks." Changing warrants reflected the military fashion trends of the period. The fashion preceded the warrants. The change was from the generally worn red small clothes (blue for royal units) to white. "Then by AWI, small cufs and lapels, white turnbacks. White breaches, while vests." Prusian influence, also going on in the French reforms as well. "And the only cool thing they had (bear skin) they didn't use." They wore clothe mitre caps in the SYW period, not bearskin. "Even for other regiments the propper tricorne is cooler then the cocked hat of the AWI" Actually, having worn both, I prefer the cocked hat, even more so the round hat worn in the field. Both periods saw adaptation to field uniforms as wel.
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Gunfreak | 22 Jun 2016 2:27 p.m. PST |
They wore clothe mitre caps in the SYW period, not bearskin I was referring to the AWI uniform. They DID use the mitre during the SYW, they didn't use the bearskin during the AWI. And they obviously choose wrong WSS/SYW cool uniform: Won AWI boring uniform: lost Napoleonics, ok infantry uniform. Cool naval uniforms: Won |
rmaker | 22 Jun 2016 3:03 p.m. PST |
Style and color should always trump cost. Try telling that to the rate payers. Napoleonics, Cool naval uniforms Only for officers. Naval ratings don't get uniforms until after the Crimean War. |
piper909 | 22 Jun 2016 5:06 p.m. PST |
Haha! I love this thread. Gunfreak speaks for me, too! |
Hafen von Schlockenberg | 22 Jun 2016 9:11 p.m. PST |
I thought buff-faced regiments were prescribed buff small clothes. Not so? |
historygamer | 23 Jun 2016 4:37 a.m. PST |
Generally they were, though there were evidently some exceptions found in the field. I think the 62nd comes to mind. |
grtbrt | 23 Jun 2016 7:49 a.m. PST |
My guess is that the uniforms becoming "so Boring " is also tied to the British army having greater numbers of semi colonial troops(Scots and Irish) who are not known for their ability to keep their clothing clean and looking nice see M.Landon : "A history of Washerwomen in the British Army" T. Wilson: "Torn Shirts , A study of regimental clothing replacement rates in the British army 1765-1827." |
42flanker | 23 Jun 2016 8:36 a.m. PST |
My guess is that the uniforms becoming "so Boring " is also tied to the British army having greater numbers of semi colonial troops(Scots and Irish) who are not known for their ability to keep their clothing clean and looking nice
Apart from the long established presence of Scottish regiments (1st, 21st, 25th, 26th plus the 42nd and Highland corps raised for the duration) together with Irish- 18th, 27th challenging that faintly insulting suggestion, how would that idea square with changing to white small clothes? The 1768 coats were hardly stripped of decoration, with regiments still distinguished by coloured facings and lace design-although that might be so apparent on wrgameing figure. There was simply less cloth than in the Rococo period. Apart from the Prussian influence mentioned, (based on 'austerity measures' dating back to the 'Stillbruch' of 1718), the line of male clothing became increasingly streamlined in the second half of the C18th and, in my opinion more elegant. To what extant this streamliningn was the result of military experience in colonial wars in general would be interesting to examine. Certainly the image of the English (note) country gentleman in casual hunting gear became very influential- particularly in France. It was only in the Revolutionary and Napoleonic wars that civilian and military costume finally diverged. To be dressed as a gentleman, I'd say the best period to be alive was from 1750 to 1810. Unless you were French, of course. |
Who asked this joker | 23 Jun 2016 8:47 a.m. PST |
British have always been more interested in fighting at the cost of fashion! |
Hafen von Schlockenberg | 23 Jun 2016 9:59 a.m. PST |
Oh,yes, I'm with 42flanker on the the period clothes; there should be a revival. Why do you except those arbiters of fashion, the French? Unless you're alluding to that bit of unpleasantness with the Guillotine. . . |
grtbrt | 23 Jun 2016 10:26 a.m. PST |
I think that the French are excluded because they are responsible for one of the ugliest and unflattering of all female clothing styles of all time . The Empire style |
historygamer | 23 Jun 2016 11:12 a.m. PST |
No doubt that white small clothes are harder to maintain and keep clean, especially when working with black powder. Fashions change, just a fact of life. Anyone for a leisure suit or Nehru jacket? |
Virginia Tory | 23 Jun 2016 11:21 a.m. PST |
"T. Wilson: "Torn Shirts , A study of regimental clothing replacement rates in the British army 1765-1827." Very funny, Kevin. You will be lashed for that at the next event. OTOH, have to agree with you wholeheartedly re: the Empire style. Yuck. |
42flanker | 23 Jun 2016 11:41 a.m. PST |
Sorry about the spellnig. Def need new specs. or I should take off the gloves. Yes, von Schlock, exactement. Matinées with Madame G. Empire line. H'm. Looked awright on Audrey Hepburn. Just sayin'. White small clothes. I never could get to grips with the notion that white cloth promoted cleanliness because it showed the dirt. Is that the Lab coat theory? |
historygamer | 23 Jun 2016 12:57 p.m. PST |
Pipe clay everything, and it will be alright. :-) |
grtbrt | 23 Jun 2016 1:17 p.m. PST |
It actually is easier to get stains(yes including blackpowder ) out of white(bleached ) clothing (linen/cotton and lite wool ) than it is dyed wool Also using Hepburn as the standard is very unfair -everything looked good on her , and since Empire style only looked "awright" need we say more ?? |
piper909 | 23 Jun 2016 1:53 p.m. PST |
On the other hand, facing colors got more flamboyant and varied, so there's a positive from this period. I get bored painting my 1740s army, with endless sequences of blue, buff, yellow, and sometimes green but not a whole lot else very often. best I can do is try to research tonal differences in the greens and yellows among regiments and mix that up as best I can. Plus we have more Highlanders in various oddball tartans. |
Gunfreak | 23 Jun 2016 2:00 p.m. PST |
Most facings where still blue, yellow, buff and green. I can't think of any other facing color except black. (And red and 60th rifles) |
grtbrt | 23 Jun 2016 3:48 p.m. PST |
White facings and orange ,Plus the many variations of facing colour. then you get to include the uniform colors of locally raised troops (Loyalists ,Anglo Indian, etc) |
42flanker | 23 Jun 2016 4:12 p.m. PST |
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Hafen von Schlockenberg | 23 Jun 2016 5:37 p.m. PST |
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historygamer | 23 Jun 2016 6:32 p.m. PST |
60th rifles? Not in AWI or F&I. |
Gunfreak | 24 Jun 2016 2:16 a.m. PST |
We are talking about the evolution of British uniforms. Someone made from the claim that after SYW more fancy selection of facing colors appeared. Last i checked Napoleonic wars are after SYW. |
historygamer | 24 Jun 2016 5:46 a.m. PST |
Sorry, I had trouble understanding that post. :-( |
Virginia Tory | 24 Jun 2016 7:06 a.m. PST |
If you look at Barnes' list of British Army regiments, the colors seem to have stayed rather constant from the late 18th up through the Napoleonic era. White, blue, various shades of yellow and green, some odd purplish colors, black and red. The uniforms certainly changed. |