"Did English Fusilier Battalions have Grenadiers?" Topic

I've bitten the bullet and decided to finish my WSS armies rebasing and painting is underway. Reinforcements have been ordered.

I suddenly realised There are some details unknown to me. So..Did English Fusilier Battalions have Grenadiers?

Any answers as ever gratefully received.

I'm open to correction, but I think that in this period, the "fusilier" was still a specialist soldier in the English army (guarding the artillery park) and there was still only one corps of them, so I would suggest not. I've certainly never come across any mention of grenadiers in their ranks.

For reasons I can't quite recall, I think they were the only other infantry to have slings on their muskets at this time.

Wrong century, but Oliver's "The Battle of Albuera 1811" says the Fusiliers considered all of their companies to be elite and so had no grenadier company per se. I can't imagine that this was a new concept but don't have hard evidence either way.

A thorny question.. and even worse if you try to work out what they may have worn (there is a whole controversy as to was the Grenadier mitre the same as the fusilier one)- but as evidence of Grenadier companies at least at one point in their history I would offer the Minden order of battle and the well documented composition of Maxwell's Grenadiers that included a company from the 23rd or Welch Fusiliers…
C

Interesting thoughts lads. I did wonder before I posted why don't I know this?

Its obviously more complex than I had thought though that is compelling evidence from Chokidar.

I, too, think there were no Grenadier companies in Fusilier regiments in the WSS. The headgear would not be especially distinctive, and, as has been said, they considered themselves a sort of specialised 'elite' force.

23rd definitely had both light and grenadier companies during the colonial rebellion.

But that war was unique in many ways.

I generally don't put grenadier in any of my WSS units. They are all just 18 figures strong. So they look more uniform with out a couple of token grenadiers. How ever had I done them big enough with distinct companies. I would put them in.

Also both my Fusilier units 23rd and Scots. Only have tricornes.

Im sure I have read somewhere that the Fusiliers when first formed were all trained as grenadiers. Howevr I do not believe they had seperate Grenadier Companys, as noted above the whole regiment considered themselves a cut above the rest.

Certainly as Gunfreak observes there were designated grenadier and light companies on the regimental strength during the evolutionary wars. In the Seven Years War there were officers designated as grenadiers on the strength, so I am afraid at least at those periods those of you going on your beliefs are probably misguided. The issue is was this always the case and did it subsequently peter out – and that I cannot venture to answer. But at Minden the 23rd had a grenadier company – no question.

Having studied the Muster Rolls of the 23rd from 1759 (the first year in which the Rolls survive) through to 1784, I can confirm there was a Grenadier Company during that period, and also a Light Company from 1771. In the NYW/WSS period, however, I am 99% sure there were no grenadiers.

Royal Regiment of Fuziliers [7F] 1705
Captain of Grenadier company 12-12-1694 – Ralph Turner

Regiment of Scots Fuziliers [21F]1705
Captain of Grenadier company 25-08-1704 – Alexander Fairly

Regiment of Welsh Fuziliers [23F]1705
Captain of Grenadier company 25-08-1704 – Valentine Ryves
1st Lieutenant of same 25-08-1704 – Griffith Jones
2nd Lieutenant of same 24-06-1706 – James Fullerton

I strongly suspect they all had a grenadier company from around 1686-88 (when most regiments were forming grenadier companies)through to Napoleonics

Curiously the 7th initially had 12 fusilier companies and 1 miner company, then a year later 11 fusilier, 1 miner and 1 grenadier company

I stand corrected – where did you find that?

I had the 12 "ordinary" and 1 miner companies, but nothing more until the mid-1700s.

Sorry Maximus I was going to post the day before you, but needed to check my facts, I don't always trust the histories but in this case seem to be right

sources – The regimental histories and the commission registers, I'm currently doing a lot of research on the British regiments and a growing ever longer list of sources

No, that's fair enough – all credit to you for finding it.

The problem with the fusilier regiments is that they didn't have lieutenant and ensign, like the grenadiers, all companies had 1st and 2nd lieutenants. so unless grenadier is specifically mentioned, you can't tell if the grenadier company was there or not. this may have given strength to the idea that all their companies were the same.

I don't have a date for the 7ths formation of a grenadier company, just after june 1686 and December 1687 is as close at the moment, possibly formed from an independent grenadier company stationed at the Tower.

as for headgear, I'll leave that to others for the moment.

That's a great post, Graf Bretlach! Many thanks for the information. I can add that a battalion of fusiliers definitely had a light infantry company in North America in 1814-15. There is also evidence strongly suggestive that a battalion from another fusilier regiment had both light and grenadier companies at this time.

Ensign H.R. Gleig of the 85th Foot (Bucks Volunteers Light Infantry) mentioned in his "Narrative of the Campaigns of the British Army at Washington, Baltimore, and New Orleans" (London: Murray, 1821) that Major General Robert Ross formed a light brigade for his attacks on Washington and Baltimore. It consisted of Gleig's 85th, plus the light companies of the 1/4th, 1/44th, and 1/21st (Royal North British Fusiliers). He made no mention of a grenadier company, but that wouldn't have belonged to his brigade.

Gilbert Auchinleck gives an an order of battle for the British army at New Orleans in his "A History of the War between Great Britain and the United States . . . " (Toronto: Maclear, 1855). The 3rd Brigade consisted of the 93rd (Sutherland Highlanders), two rifle companies of the 3/95th, and two companies each from the 43rd Light Infantry, and 7th (Royal Fusiliers). The remaining companies of the 43rd and 7th were in the 1st Brigade, which was held in reserve. This certainly looks to me like a case of stripping elite companies from their battalion to reinforce an assault. Perhaps even more interesting is that it might just indicate that British light infantry regiments also had elite companies, at least on an informal basis.