"Castles of Steel" Topic

The Massie books description of Jutland
Is there any game that can portray the mind blowing confusion, weather conditions, crazy manuevers, even to the lunatic night action of Sheers escape??

Absolutely not. At least not without a convoluted double-blind system. You just can't artificially create the doubt and confusion in the minds of the players. Even a daylight action like the one against the Taffys at Leyte Gulf are impossible to recreate.

I think it's possible with virtually any game that has a spotting system, as long as you have a referee and a large pool of players so that individual squadrons (or even ships) have to pass information along and no one player has control over their whole fleet. So, yes, but very very difficult.

Even something as straightforward as Denmark Strait suffers a bit on the table. What player wouldn't have the destroyers attack, or the 1st Cruiser Squadron engage, or make the mistake of identifying Prinz Eugen as Bismarck?

Absolutely not. At least not without a convoluted double-blind system. You just can't artificially create the doubt and confusion in the minds of the players.

Actually, the simple expedient of introducing multiple players on each side goes a long way to creating the kind of chaos, confusion and miscoordination that infuses big battles like Jutland, Leyte Gulf, Guadalcanal, etc. I found it helps to use "bogie" markers for ships outside spotting range.

Double-blind map searches for movement outside visual range does do help tremendously to sow confusion, but it's very difficult to keep the players from falling asleep. Such games are typically very paperwork-heavy and involve lots of sitting around while one guy (the GM) figures out who sees what each turn.

I've never met night action rules that made me happy.

- Ix

You mean to say theres nothing that replicates ssy the several failures to open fire by the British upon the Germans in the night action or the misidentifications of destroyers for cruisers and cruisers for battlesips or the late and innacurate or accurate British intelligence or just the forced displacement of ships due to the weather??

It would take an especially motivated, patient and mature group of players to run such a game. I, for one, would love to be in the middle of it.

B

You mean to say theres nothing that replicates ssy the several failures to open fire by the British upon the Germans in the night action or the misidentifications of destroyers for cruisers and cruisers for battlesips or the late and innacurate or accurate British intelligence or just the forced displacement of ships due to the weather??

Sure there are, but those are very specific events you're inquiring about; I only know of rules that sort of simulate each situation in a general sense, not precisely as they happened at Jutland. For instance:

• The GWAS rules by Avalanche Press attempt to simulate weather and intelligence snafus with the map search phase rules.
  
• The old GQ 1 & 2 rules required any ship which was illuminated in a night turn to be fired on by all ships, friendly or enemy. I didn't like that rule, but it does sort of represent the confusion of night actions, prevent micromanagement of searchlights, and inhibit players from shooting with indiscretion.
  
• Using bogie markers as I said above might cause a player to make the wrong assumption about the class or size of the ships represented by the markers, especially early in the game, and even more especially if no player knows which side each other player is on until the markers are replaced by ship models.
  
• I simulated faulty intelligence in some multi-player map search games by giving each player his own map and requiring written inter-player communications (that I sometimes delayed), and rolling for miscommunications from notoriously faulty scouts (like German zeppelins and subs). While the results were kinda fun, it required a lot of tedious waiting around for the players (the GM can only process hand-written notes and orders so fast…).
  

- Ix

One problem is that if you are playing a historical scenario and the players know they are playing a historical scenario then they already know far more then their historical counterparts would have known.

One problem is that if you are playing a historical scenario and the players know they are playing a historical scenario then they already know far more then their historical counterparts would have known.

A well-handled orbitoclast will fix that in short order.

A well-handled orbitoclast will fix that in short order.

If you mean someone who is willing to change the historical OB, then perhaps that should be "orbatoclast" …

MH

We did Samar once and simply substituted models. What the Japanese historically thought they saw was what went on the table, though the Americans were painfully aware which ships they really had. Worked out about like the real fight.

As I recall, Fred T. Jane's naval wargame from the beginning of the 20th century simulated night action by requiring written movement orders which were implemented by the umpire and assistants after the actual players left the room. Then the lights were turned out before readmitting the players, who had to decide on new movement and selection of targets by shining flashlights from table level. I'm sure it wasn't perfect, but I think it has possibilities for any sea battles where radar and aircraft were not factors.