Weasel | 13 Jun 2016 1:57 p.m. PST |
Usually the company is the smallest element I see mentioned in texts. Was the company the lowest level that typically existed in the organisation or were they divided further to help manage it all? If so, what was the smallest element? Please note, I'm not talking about elements that could take independent action but for organisation purposes. Hope the question makes sense.
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rmaker | 13 Jun 2016 2:36 p.m. PST |
Companies were admin units. Divisions and platoons were tactical units. At parade each morning, a battalion was told off into four (Austrians – three) divisions of equal or nearly equal size. The tactics depended on this. Since companies could (and did) vary widely in size, they were no good for tactical purposes. |
138SquadronRAF | 13 Jun 2016 3:31 p.m. PST |
Correct. Sorry I thought I was still on the ACW board. |
attilathepun47 | 13 Jun 2016 3:37 p.m. PST |
In the case of the British army, a company on a wartime footing was divided into two platoons, which were, in turn, subdivided into sections. Certainly these sub-units could be detached for special duties (forming a garrison, assisting artillery gun crews, occupying a building or other important feature on a field of battle. However, this would not really be important for rules designed for large-scale battles. Skirmish or brigade level games would be another matter. By the way, British companies on a peace establishment only had one platoon. The battalion doubled in size during wartime by adding the second platoons (without any increase in the number of officers or specialist personnel}. |
jeffreyw3 | 13 Jun 2016 5:58 p.m. PST |
In the Russian army, companies were administrative units, as rmaker notes. The actual unit of maneuver for infantry was the vzvod (platoon)--battalions were divided into eight. All of this information, for all of the main armies of the era is easily found on Napolun.com |
Supercilius Maximus | 14 Jun 2016 2:30 a.m. PST |
In the British Army, the normal method of forming ad hoc detachments below battalion level was to take the men from more than one corps, in order to spread any potential loss (assuming more than one battalion was available – if only one battalion was present, they would be chosen from several battalion/centre companies). Squads were certainly known in the Napoleonic era, as there is a comment (in Grattan, I think) where the writer remarks on negative comments about Irish troops not understanding what a squad was. In earlier periods, I think the "mess" or "tent" was often used as the smallest unit, although the Foot Guards in the AWI drew their squads from several tents so that the men got to know more of their colleagues; the Light Infantry battalions operated in "files" and each pair of men was supposed to work together in all activities. |
attilathepun47 | 14 Jun 2016 4:18 p.m. PST |
Although this does not apply just to units smaller than company level, detachments for garrison duty and escorting supply trains could really drag down a battalion's field strength. As of June 22, 1814 the 103rd Foot (British) had at least 691 men serving on the Niagara Frontier (Upper Canada), but they were in three different locations, and no one contingent numbered more than 370 (presumably counting just other ranks). Source: Ernest Cruikshank's "The Documentary History of the Campaign on the Niagara Frontier, Vol. III," pages 28-30. |
Art | 14 Jun 2016 11:31 p.m. PST |
G'Day Gents If I may assist in what is and is not considered a tactical body: All formations within le tableau de l'infanterie fall within four groups, in accordance to masses (to include the Russians basically): 1) Administrative formation 2) Indispensable to a Mass 3) Mass (collective body of troops) 4) Tactical formation 1) Administrative formation Bataillon Compagnie Demi-brigade Escouade Regiment Section 2) Indispensable to a Mass (collective body of troops) Bataille Bataillon Corps d'etat-major Compagnie Demi-brigade Manipule Regiment 3) Mass (collective body of troops) Bande Bataillon Cohorte de garde nationale Compagnie * Demi-brigade Etat-major Legion Regiment * Tirailleurs
4) Tactical formation Aile Armee Bataille Bataillon ** Brigade d'armee Corps de bataille Demi-bataillon Division epagogique Division strateumatique File Manche Peloton Section Subdivision *** Tirailleur *Sub category – Indispensable to a tactical mass under certain circumstances, which then makes it a tactical formation. Compagnie: (example) detached grenadiers and voltiguers or tirailleurs en compagnie-division Regiment: (example) when Regiments with 4 or more battalions became Brigades, or a regiment with battalions on line and battalions in close column on the flanks **Tactical Units of a Battalion (fractured) Demi-bataillon ***Tactical unit for subdivisions (fractured) Le peloton La division (aile) La section For the French and Russians; a division with two pelotons was not a tactical unit, nor une escouade (squad), but a file is a tactical body. Best Regards Art |
von Winterfeldt | 15 Jun 2016 2:19 a.m. PST |
"Please note, I'm not talking about elements that could take independent action but for organisation purposes." "French regulations decreed that the soldier would live and fight surrounded by the primary group. As far as possible, the ordinaire was to be composed of men from the same squad or section (…) The 24 June 1792 Règlement concernant le service intérieur de l'infanterie set the ordinaire at fourteen ro sixteen men (…)
For more read Lynn : The Bayonets of the Republic, pages 164 following. |
Art | 15 Jun 2016 7:40 a.m. PST |
Hans-Karl For the mess you are absolutely correct. "depuis l'institution du rang et taille, les escouades n'ont plus ete que des agregations administratives". As of 1775 the authorized number of Escouades in une compagnie decreased in the summer months during peace time. This is so that the men may be given work passes and try and earn a small earning. This is also why in the regulations you see how the French will train in two ranks during peace time training. Best Regards Art |
Brownbear | 15 Jun 2016 11:28 a.m. PST |
Although maybe companies are no fighting formations, companies are often mentioned in reconnaissance parties (2 companies voltigeures plus a light gun and some mounted chasseurs), used as occupying troops (in Tyrol, bavarian companies were quartered in various villages and were attacked by insugents) etc etc |
Art | 15 Jun 2016 11:43 a.m. PST |
G'Day "Although maybe companies are no fighting formations" This is incorrect…. As I mentioned in my previous posting in regards to le tableau de l'infanterie. When a battalion has sub factions and a peloton is to deploy so as to screen the parent battalion, it is under the principles of compagnie-peloton….it is still considered a peloton. When a battalion detaches (not deploys) a fusilier peloton…it is now a compagnie. Whenever voltigeurs or grenadiers are deployed or detached they are under the principles of compagnie-division…and are always called a compagnie. Best Reards Art |