"Buyer Beware" Topic

So what I'm about to post is for a good friend of mine and gaming partner. I have full confidence in her to speak the truth and to report what has transpired truthfully. This is a copy of her Facebook post. She has a lot followers/friends on there who are all part of the gaming community.
So begins her tale:

Don't Use This Professional Painter: Sean Davis – aka "Highlander Davis", Prestwick,South Ayrshire,Scotland.
link
Preface: It's with somewhat of a heavy heart that I make this post, because I am not in the habit of calling people out on their crooked behavior. I tend to chalk it up to personal experience, somewhat grimace, and then move-on. But this particular individual has been lying to me – and others – for more than a year now, and I feel that it is time to make this public and warn others.
Because this is a WARNING, I ask three things of you:
1) Read impartially. I will post nothing but the facts, will provide a full transcription of a year's worth of dialog for anyone interested, but please make up your own mind.
2) If you feel that this individual should not be taking financial recompense for painting services, then I would ask that you LIKE and SHARE. Get the word out to ensure others can't also fall foul.
3) You can form an opinion on how I have handled this, the fact that I have left it too long, or the fact that I gave Sean too many opportunities to come good; we handle things differently as humans, and I like to believe that humans can be good if given the chance. Here I was proved wrong. It is what it is; now I tell all.
INTRODUCTION:
Sean David – aka Highlander Davis – is a professional painter I "met" through the The Napoleonic Wargamer group on Facebook. I paint my own miniatures, but often need assistance due to time constraints. I earn a decent coin, so paying a gifted individual to help me is something I have done over the years.
Sean paints for Wargames Illustrated and BOS Studio Miniatures; I had no reason to suspect that he intended to take money and miniatures and return nothing.
My first contact with Sean was in mid-June of last year (this is somewhat the 1-year anniversary) and my assignment was a batch of arabian 28mm Napoleonic miniatures from Westfalia Miniatures.
5 x line infantry (30 minis)
1 x line infantry command (6 minis)
2 x militia (12)
1 x militia command (6)
2 x cataphract (8 men, 8 horses)
1 general (2 men, 2 horses)
2 line gun (8 men, 2 gun)
2 camel gun (4 men, 2 camel)
2 x afghan infantry (12)
1 x afghan command (6)
1 line infantry (6)
1 x line infantry command (6 minis)
1 x afghan cavalry (4 men, 4 horses)
1 x afghan cavalry command (4 men, 4 horses)
1 x wahhabis with musket (6)
1 camel train
PRICEPOINT: £460.00 GBP with discount
SHIPPED: 6/24/15
DEPOSIT PAID: £150.00 GBP (paypal)
7/6 – box had not arrived, but I had a need to also get some French lights/additional napoleonics done for a game in September. This was going to be a second order.
7/7 – Sean confirmed he got the box
7/8- we agreed on Sean Davis painting 3 boxes of miniatures, he was going to order them, thus I sent an additional payment to cover the second project:
DEPOSIT PAID #2 7/8: £160.00 GBP (paypal)
RUNNING TOTAL: : £310.00 GBP
Sean has about 100 miniatures of mine and should be ordering 3 more boxes on my behalf.
7/8 – Sean said he was ordering miniatures from Warlord Games on my behalf
7/17 – Sean confirmed the boxes had arrived from Warlords.(pay attention to this)
7/17 – I placed a THIRD order; piecemeal miniatures I needed for my September game (74 miniatures).
7/17 – Sean Davis: "never let a customer down :)"
PRICEPOINT PROJECT 3: £324.00 GBP (inc. figures)
7/17 – Sean confirmed he had ordered miniatures from Perry
7/19 – PAYMENT #2 SENT
DEPOSIT PAID: £402.00 GBP (paypal)
RUNNING TOTAL: : £712.00 GBP
7/27 – Sean Davis sent me a progress shot of some miniatures. Make note of this.
7/28 – Sean asked for a "big favor." In hindsight I think this is where my stupid gene kicked in. I still owed "a final payment on your french figures of £150.00 GBP? and £310.00 GBP on the persians etc. If i were to ask you for £200.00 GBP, as I have a massive bill coming out tomorrow that i have forgotten about"
A cost saving to me if I chipped in the rest now.
7/28 – PAYMENT #3 SENT
DEPOSIT PAID: £200.00 GBP (paypal)
RUNNING TOTAL: : £912.00 GBP
We're hitting deep $1.5 USDk at this point.
7/28- Sean Davis said "Thanks Alyssa I'll have the French sent out by Thursday at latest." make a note of this, also.
7/30 – A promise of shipment: "Hi Alyssa the mrs packed everything up this morning and took it with her, "
8/8 – Sean confirmed "Yeh they were sent 30th July :)"
8/17 – I asked for a tracking number. Sean indicated that he'd have the persians/brits done "soon" (Projects 1 & 3)
8/19 – I reasked for tracking number
8/24 – still nothing in mail or tracking #. I voiced some concern.
8/24 – Sean "I promise you you'll receive your figures."
8/25 – "the British I will have them sent express delivery by the end of the week. "
8/26 – Sean said the first package from July never shipped afterall. "I'll post it on Friday express delivery. "
8/26 – "Next week I'm starting your Persians"
8/26 – "Don't worry I'll have it all tracked insured and posted by myself! "
8/30 – *no word* I asked what was going on.
8/31 – "Hi Alyssa I'll send u the tracking number when I'm home"
8/31 – "Yes they have been mailed"
9/2 – Sean indicated he had started project #1
9/4 – I asked for my tracking number
9/9 – Sean indicated "Got a phone call today from customs. Had to pay an extra £10.00 GBP it will be with u by next Thursday x"
9/9 – Sean promised photos of project #1 (the Persians) (spoiler alert: it never happened)
9/18 – my game is now looming; the miniatures aren't here. I asked for a tracking #
9/19 – I sent reminder / no response
9/22 – reminder / no response
9/23 – promises from Sean to "sort things out."
9/28 – my game has come and gone now. No miniatures.
9/29 – in response to a pretty angry message from me, sean said "I've got a big parcel ready to be sent when I get paid next monday and it'll be with parcel force global express 3 day delivery. "
10/12 – I told him I just wanted to send someone to his place to get my stuff back.
10/12 sean said "Hi Alyssa I just sent it away an hour ago x
Was going to message you when I'm inI have put a unit of painted roman archers in or you too"
12/9 – still not here
12/17 – his girlfriend pops online, supposedly, to sort things out.
1/13 – (get this) "Hi there my apologies Alyssa. We have tracked the package at customs about to be released."
1/13 – "Sean told me he had shipped. I don't know why it has taken so long. But I do know it'll be with you asap."
1/22 – I asked for a status check / tracking / insurance / something
1/25 – asked for same
2/1 – asked for same
2/5 – asked for same
2/5 – (wait for it) sean said "That is the front rank order. I lied once yes but thats because I didn't want to upset you in anyway. And I admit that"
Yes, he was just now ORDERING my miniatures for projects 2 & 3
2/5 – Sean said minis were sent (previously)
2/15 – Sean said "he'll ship asap" (at this point it's a combination of "has shipped" and "will ship.")
3/15 – Sean posts pictures on his wall of miniatures destined for Wargames Illustrated
3/21 – I got a picture of french minis (project #2) painted, which is something he said he did last July.
3/23 – another customer of Sean's posted on Sean's wall that he got his minis.
4/5 – Sean send me another "miniatures have been sent"
4/22 – I asked for my arabain army back (project #1)
5/12 – I asked sean to " send me a photo of my minis at your place; I don't care if they're painted or not," I was pretty certain they'd gone.
5/13 – sean sent me a picture of my minis (project #1) unpainted. At least they were still in the same box I had sent him. Now I just needed to get them back.
5/13 – I asked for my stuff back. I don't know why he won't send them to me. Sean promised to send. <silence>
5/18 – I asked for a tracking number.
5/25 – I warned sean my stuff had to ship back to me, or I'd get vocal.
5/26 – in response to very frustrated messages from me, sean said " We will have it posted on the 3rd of June."
6/2 – I sent a message to sean reminding him of his promise. his response "we are (still on track) alyssa"
6/7 – :) I asked for a shipping #
6/8 – tracking?
6/9 – tracking?
6/10 – tracking?
6/10 – sean said he'd get me a tracking number (then silence)
6/11 – silence
6/12 – and here we are.
I've given Sean Davis @ $1,500 USD, all of my arabian/persians, and paid for him to purchase 150 additional miniatures. He has promised not only a completion of painting, but also shipment, many, many times.
And, the kicker, he has been doing exactly the same to someone else I know over the same period of time – David DuJordan.
He has been called out on the The Napoleonic Wargamer facebook page – and told everything everything would ship "soon" (this was months ago), contacted by administrators (several times) …
And yet here we are. One full year later, and I have absolutely nothing to show for my money, and I am one small army down. He took the money, and he took my minis, and he won't return any of them.
Don't use Sean David for your painting service, and if you use painting services or not, please help spread the word, because I'd hate for anyone else to be stung like this.

Did your friend ever open a dispute through PayPal?

As a professional painter for others with a few years of good service to my customers I understand your utter disappointment. I always try to never have too many projects clients at the same time I as all who paint for others basically work on the honour system and my reputation is on the line (important to me.) I never would ask for a deposit and ask for payment from the customer on or just before completion (max four day time lag) I always keep the client informed and do show progress photos. If there is a delay problem (overcast and bad light days etc.) I do send a recalculation and reasons but I always fit the project into a responsible timetable, once parcel is sent I always make sure ther is some form of tracking (always- as then it is unfortunately in ther hands of postal services- thankfully not one lost yet) my hope you get some recompense from the blaggard as the project is as much part of the customer as the painter.

I have had the min,i , same experience some 15 years back. I did at least get my figures back after 2 years, but I know a lot who did not.

The one thing I learned was to send a small order to a new painter. Both you and the new painter need to see how well you get on. If you like thier work, you send more. Also, how reputable was this person before this commission? Had you done business before? That's a great sum of money. I hope that things turn out all right for you. Keep on him, and at least arange a way to get your figures back.

Extrabio1947- She is currently in the process trying to get her money back.

Wow! Just Wow!

If you haven't done so already, have a word with South Ayrshire Trading Standards:

link

Unbelievable.

I am so sorry to hear about this as a painter for over 10 years I never expect or ask for payment up front.
I also provide and gave dates when figures will be completed.
The only thing I can suggest is if you paid by paypal you might try them.
All painters can run into problems now and again but this is just too much!

Vic,
I've been doing commission work for three years now. I have one very regular client and three others off and on. I have always requested payment up front, and have received it with no issue. I turn jobs around quickly, and I am in constant contact with clients.

Sounds a typical "i think I can do this and make us both happy", "don't think i can do this" make excuses. Then get belligerent and claim the payer is in the wrong. End up "it's not my fault it is the client's". I suspect he is hsort of money and has spent it all.
Would be great if this works out but it looks very improbable. Thanks for bringing it to attention.

good luck
martin

I normally require a up front deposit on most commissions I do. At least for the first time I am doing painting for someone. I just don't want to paint someone's miniatures and then wait another 3 months to get paid after they are finished.

Hello all. I am the buyer of this particular endeavor and wanted to give a small update:

1) At the time of writing I have paid $1,300 USD (910 GBP) for three painting projects.

2) The timeline of communications given above is correct.

3) At this current time I have not received anything back from projects 1, 2 or 3

4) This morning I was told that my (unpainted) miniatures are being returned to me. (I wanted to keep her out of it, as this is not her doing or her responsibility, but his fiance packaged up the minis and paid to ship them back to me. Again, not her issue, but she is trying to make this part of it "right").

5) No refund has been offered/discussed.

6) I paid for two additional projects in which Sean was going to purchase the miniatures on my behalf and then paint them; I have not been given these miniatures. I do not think I will see them, but I await the shipment of unpainted project #1 to see what's in the box.

7) At the time of writing my expectations have been set thusly by Sean:
- no refund
- no return of miniatures from project 2
- no return of miniatures from project 3
- miniatures from project #1 shipped (I wait to receive this and thank his girlfriend for wading into the fray)

8) My status is waiting on my unpainted miniatures to be returned to me.

I have been in contact with someone who claims to be Sean's 'partner'.

She has threatened legal action unless I remove this topic. I invited her to have her lawyer contact me.

I asked her if the matter has been resolved yet. She told me that she had resolved everything with Alyssa.

She claims that because this topic identifies the town in which Sean lives, that this has made it possible for 'threatening messages' to be sent to him, and that she has reported this to the police. She says that I am breaking the law by letting this topic exist.

(Since when is Ayrshire in the Highlands?)

(Since when is Ayrshire in the Highlands?)

It isn't. But then the business address doesn't claim to be in the Hielans.

"Highlander" Davis, possibly born in a wee croft in Sutherland, maybe moved to the balmy Lowlands to bake in the tropic sun, surrounded by palm trees and hula girls.

Bill: If that's teh case, may I suggest a minor edit to the OP, removing the town? Assuming, of course, that the solicitor contacts you and provides you with a court order. An American court order.

Good luck with that, sweetheart.

Thoughts: If he makes his living by painting miniatures (or by fraudulently accepting money on the pretence of painting miniatures) surely his address is out in the public domain anyway?

You know, so marks (I mean customers) can send him stuff to steal (I mean paint).

This is an in-a-nutshell précis of what happens when something that was fun and manageable as a hobby becomes a millstone of workload, grind and deadline as a business.
Unfortunately, the sorry tale of excuses and promises is a familiar story from many circling-the-drain hobby enterprises.

If I could be the 'angel on the shoulder', I'd urge pro painters to splurge their upfront payments on hookers and coke.
THEN, I'd realise I was on the wrong shoulder – switch to the right shoulder, and say:

"Don't start with the excuses. Return any payment, apologise, and admit you can't fulfil that commission right now."

It's way better in the long run for all concerned.

But a big hello to "Sean Davis' Partner"!
I expect to see that membername appear in the "our newest member is" slot soon.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to type 'Sean Highlander Davis + fraud' into google search until it's the top search term.

Sean (and "partner"): Accept the fact that you have been busted. Totally. Irrevocably.

Interesting read, I do limited painting for E-bay and a few customers. I never ask for cash up front, I send them pics of the finished stuff then ask them to pay via Pay Pal. When shipped I send them a tracking number ASAP so we can both watch the shipment. I can understand getting a bit behind but lying to a customer is unacceptable. Asking for cash in advance after failing to deliver previous commissions is a warning sign of inpending fraud in most cases.

As for wanting you to drop names and places I fully understand. Now that this is in the open he suffers the risk of his high profile customers dumping his service to distance themselves from the stink. This may be why there are threats being thrown about.

Hang in there, Bill. We know that you have the funds required for a lengthy legal battle. We'll be rooting for you from the sidelines.

I have relatives born in wee crofts in Sutherland. Don't think they ripped off paint commissions – too busy farming, fishing and fighting the Empire's enemies!
Ha! Hoola girls from Kilmarnock! I think Burns wrote an ode to them.

Is there any chance that the customer could be in danger of being sued for defamation by posting that stuff on Facebook?

The basis of 'defamation' is that the claim/s being made are false.

If Davis were dumb enough to bring a defamation case, that would be a nice cheap way for his victims to get a day in court.

Seriously, we've been here a hundred times. We've seen how this goes. The excuses, the lies, false promises, bluster & browbeating … all as usual.
Legal threats will be plentiful.
(Shonky letters or emails purporting to be from lawyers but patently not – they're HILARIOUS. They're my favourite. Hope we get some of them.)
But no. No actual legal action.

Nobody need listen apprehensively for the squeaky wheels of the Prestwick village constable's bicycle.

Hi Vic, James Roach here, I'm sorry to hear about this. On behalf of my industry I'm sorry for how this has worked out for you.

As a 'buyer beware' to others. When something looks too good to be true it usually is. Only a week ago I warned a new comer to the industry on TMP not to undercharge because his order book would be flooded and it would be impossible to paint a 'living wage' at low prices and keep everyone happy.

114 figures, 18 horses and 2 guns for £460.00 GBP? Quality work costs much more than that. I wouldn't have taken that commission (not having a clue about complexity of figures you wanted) for less than £978.00 GBP plus postage (at cost). With complex figures (Napoleonics being typical) you might have been looking at over £1,200.00 GBP if you were getting them from me. Having said that, you would get them, painted like this (see shameful plug below), in a reasonable time frame.

It is always difficult, speaking for professional painters, to make every deadline, especially as the best of us are typically one man bands without cover for illness and domestic crisis, and it is sometimes just difficult to predict how long jobs (all lined up) take, but what you have undergone is simply shameful.

Sorry Vic, I hope you get this resolved and I hope this doesn't put you off professionals for life.

Best Regards,

James

Olicana, do you not think there might have just wished for a basic paint style.

Your painting is really nice but not everyone can pay that sort of money.

I have been painting for over 10 years and charge £3.00 GBP per foot figure unbased and do just fine.

I think its more of a case of him just robbing this person.
Mark

Just to update this a little bit. With the original facebook post 3 more people have come forward similar stories.
The painter in question has also changed his FB page to this now: link

Just for reference.

Hold the line Bill. The threat of legal action shows them to be villains,

martin

Editor in CHief Bill, I'd like to point out that Sean has posted his own address (the town) on Facebook publicly, this screenshot was taken today and I'm not a friend of his profile. My original post on facebook and this post do not reveal anything more than Sean has revealed himself.

link

Mtmodels: +1

What she 'should have paid' is completely subjective and irrelevant.

What is relevant: she paid $1,300.00 USD and has received nothing.

I've heard nothing further from "Sean's partner."

I miss her. She was nice.

Learned your lesson many decades ago.

I dealt with a painter and had several units painted by him with no problems. I gave him figures and as soon as he finished them he would hand them back and I would pay him (cash) and give him the next figures to paint. I gave him 60 figures (25mm) and he asked if I could pay him as he was short of cash (which I did). When I met him next he said he had just finished them and had not been able to dull-coat them so I said OK and gave him 60 more figures (25mm). For the next five years I received every excuse in the book
(dull-coat was bad and hazed up so had to be repainted, had a health problem and he could not paint, spilled brush cleaner on figures so had to be repainted, etc). Finally, told him to just return the figures as is and he said they were lost when he moved. I suspect he had painted them and then sold them.

Finally, met him at a show and received 75 15mm figures in their place. Funny thing is that I had over 3,000 15mm figures painted by another painter that I would have had him paint if he had not messed with me.

Blimey, where to start?

In order to keep Prestwicks finest off my back I'll only be brief and ask one question to Vic. Why was your friend willing to accept $1,300 USD exposure for such a terrible standard of painting? She would have been better off spraying them and then dipping them. Honestly, they are awful.

I think this is what some of the politer painters above were saying.

Gamershs, isn't that always the case? a near-sighted objective to make a quick buck with no work done, perhaps panic as they realize they now can't deliver, and a total loss of the bigger picture: deliver, deliver on time (or close to it), meet the expectations of the job … and probably have work for many years. Had Sean come through for me, I'd probably be giving him an assignment every month for some time to come. But, nope, taking my $1,300 USD and calling it "good" was more important, I guess.

Foresightpaint: I'm actually a pretty good painter myself (as vic and others will attest), what works against me is "time." I have a pretty demanding job, and other ancillary time sinks, so getting assistance in my painting endeavors saves me time; and this is valuable to me.

Looking back at the timeline I can only conclude that I was silly, though. Regardless of whatever credentials Sean boasted, and regardless of my trusting nature, or whatever burning painting needs I had, I should have gone for much smaller exposure.

I was a fool to trust Sean.

As a part time commission painter myself I took a look on the net to see how often this sort of thing happens and I was surprised by
A) the number of complaints there are out there and
B) some are about people that I know of through other sites.
Their main defence seems to be illness – difficult to disprove – and it may well be true but partners/family/friends can assist in communicating with customers.
The other disturbing item is that those implemented in these issues tend to get belligerant and aggressive – not the best way of getting something sorted.

Part of me, mindenbrush, is fascinated by the human psyche and its need – and capability – to defend itself, quite belligerently so, when in the wrong. And then part of me is all "really? just do the job, manage my expectations, and dig yourself out."

This is also one reason why I'm more than willing to share the entire 1 year of conversation/business transactions with anyone, because they demonstrate a huge level of patience and understanding on my behalf when faced with "I'm sick … sorry."

And also patience when it came to "dude, just ship me what you have, regardless of its painted status." And "Dude, I'll pay for you to ship it to me!" or "I'll have someone pick the stuff up!"

Which stretched on for not days, not weeks, but months. And all along I tried to be understanding and forgiving.

The a fault, it seems.

I was also a big softly once the final straw was broken: warning him – weeks ahead of time – that I'd get vocal if my stuff didn't ship, and then counting down to that moment, and reminding him when his promises were due.

I kinda like to think that I went above and beyond on the understanding, patience, and "management of my own painter" stakes.

As a part time commission painter myself

Therein is the difference. You paint part time. Could you afford to give up your day job to paint full time?

Would you do it?

I don't know what you do for a living…………..

olicana,
This thread is about honesty and communication, not about what people charge to paint figures.
I admire people that take the plunge and go full time, I paint for enjoyment and the odd commission for friends.

Mindenbrush: +1

"Therein is the difference."

What difference-? What does that 'difference' have to do with the fact that her money was taken and no product returned.

The 'quality' of the painting is not material to this case.

+2 to Mindenbrush…

Sean approached me recently about doing some Toy Soldier painting but I was, perhaps fortunately, a little wary due to a couple of incidents involving him over the years…

Mike

There are very few gaming/miniatures sites that have anything positive to say about him, Frothers would like to get hold of him.

I had a similar experience with Sean. He approached me to sculpt some miniatures for him and in return he'd paint some fifteen Otherworld miniatures for me as part of the payment for sculpting time.
I completed two sculpts with a third almost finished, when it became apparent that there was no progress on the painting.
I had several declarations that the figures had been posted, but no response to tracking number requests and nothing ever turned up. When pressed, I got excuses from his girlfriend that there was a mix up between them as to who posted what, but again just excuses and never the actual miniatures. Pretty much mirroring Alyssa's experience.
I've only lost out on a clutch of miniatures and wasted some sculpting time. I'll put the sorry story down to experience and will only use painters with a good reputation and always take a deposit from new commissions.
The sculpts I made for him will be heading off to a new home free of charge.

Sean has been running around pleading "there's two sides to every story," and I tend to conur, so I posted the entire story, both sides, here: link

screenshots of the conversation. every promise. every "shipment." every excuse.

In his words, not mine.

Phil, and we are far from alone. After my post last Sunday various people have been coming out of the woodwork. I can't and won't post on their behalf, but it is a long list of unpaid work done for sean, payments made for miniature painting (and nothing received), and paid-for shipments that never happened.

If the painter in question publicly posted their contact information on the web then I don't see how they can legally claim that information should be kept private and not also shared here.

I'm no lawyer so maybe I'm wrong. But, I think the painter in question (or his partner or whatever he's claiming she is to him) would need to prove that the information wasn't publicly available and that the information shared by Alyssa and others is false. Again, I'm no lawyer. Just my thoughts.

Here are a few screenshots from a quick Google search I did.

This is from the Warlord Games message board:

link

This is from the Forum of Doom internet message board:

link

This is from his website:

Looks like the painter in question may have turned off his site/didn't pay to keep it up. Otherwise I believe the About Me section had contact info and an address if I remember correctly from what I saw a few days back.

All of this was information the painter in question publicly shared, which turned up in a quick Google search.

Facebook page was taken down too.

Keep the pressure up, Alyssa! Been following this on FB. I hope you see some of your losses returned to you. I've experienced a similar story in the housing rennovation arena (lucked up that my brother was a lawyer who moved into the state recently). Same excuses and deflections noted above.

Mars and Bellona keep you, sister!

Andrew Jordan

Thanks Andrew! Lots of little successes over here. No minis or money, of course, but I'll take my successes in other ways at this point.

And, of course, not let the matter drop.