"15mm Cold War Kit Recommendations" Topic

To the Wise Magi of TMP:
I have invested in some 15mm Cold War Era kit and I am getting close to starting to paint and prepare the minis and models. I am looking for suggestions to fill out my inventory for skirmish and tactical level games. These games would be less than combat team/company strength forces for the attacker and reinforced platoon sized forces for the defender. The period of focus is roughly 1970-1990 and the theatre is Europe. I have all the British and Canadian kit I need or will soon order, but I have doubts about the Soviets and Bundeswehr forces I need. The forces I have right now are:
Soviet Forces:
10 X T-64B, 4 X T-55, 4 X T-62, 4 X T-72, 3 X ASU-85, 10 X BTR-60PB, 10 X BMP-1 w. AT-3, 10 X BMD-1 w. AT-3, 3 X BRDM-2, 3 X BRDM-2PU, 3 X BRDM-2 Rkh, 3 X BMR Recce, 1 X BMP w. Small Fred Radar, 3 X BRDM-2 w. AT-5, 2 X BRDM-2 w. SA-9, 2 X ZSU-234 SPAA, 6 X 2S1 SP How., 2 X BTR-60 PU, 3 X MTLB APC, 1 X IMR(T-55) and one MTU-55 bridge layer. I have a company of MR Infantry (1970's) and some support weapons.
I will probably get 2 x.SA-13 and three more BMP-1. I also need some AGL's and some HMG's. I am debating buying a company of BMP-2's as well.
For the Germans I have very little. 4 X Leopard 1A4's (painted as Canadian kit), 2 X Leopard II's and 5 X TPz Fuch's. I'll get some Marder I's and M-113's or use my Canadian M-113's as proxies.
Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers and good gaming.
Rod Robertson.

Can't help on the vehicles, so will watch this with interest.

For the Soviet IFVs/APCs, you really need 12 of each of them, since intel missed the MG attachments for each company, or didn't bother to pass that along to other personnel, due to secrecy concerns, back in the day, so: 12 x BMP-1s, 12 x BTR-60s, etc., etc..

Mako 11:
Yup, I know about the extra vehicles and I intend to get more BMP-1's and BMD's. I haven't decided whether to get more BTR-60PB's or to get turret-less BTR-60's instead. I also am toying with tracking down some automatic mortars in BTR's and some SO-120's for support. I have also considered getting some PT-76's for Naval infantry ops but I'm not sure; the T-55's should cover that. BTR-70's/80's might be down the road too but I'm not made out of money so I have some limitations placed upon me.
Thanks for your counsel and your interest.
Cheers.
Rod Robertson.

Not sure about postage costs but check out these excellent and reasonably priced models from Butlers Printed Models, £4.00 GBP per vehicle. Sorry no link, their site seems to be temporarily down. I got 3 of their T64's and they're excellent.

I would go for turreted BTR-60 PBs, as they give you a far greater time-span across your period. The turretless variants had largely disappeared from front-line service by the 1980s. The BTR-60 PB was the most numerous AFV in Germany through the 1980s.

You'll probably want a few more BMP-1s or -2s to go in your recce company with your BMP-Rs and BRDM-2s. BMP-Rs tended to be recce command vehicles.

Naval Infantry had both PT-76s and T-55s in each brigade. Essentially a battalion of each, though the PT-76s were often parcelled out as company-sized attachments to the rifle battalions.

You'll also probably want some forward observer vehicles – the MTLBu-based 1V13 (QRF) for your tracked units and BTR-60-based 1V18 (Skytrex) with the wheeled. Skytrex also do the FAC variant of the BTR-60.

West German panzer-grenadiers were organised in companies of 11x Marders. The 'pure' panzer-grenadier battalions of panzer-grenadier brigades would have the third company mounted in 10x M113. The reason for the difference was that Marder Companies had a 'Reserve Section' that the M113 Companies lacked.

Don't go nuts with Fuchs, as they're only really any use if you're getting recce or pioneers. You'll also want a few Luchs and Leopard 1 if you're doing recce.

Flakpanzer Gepards and Jaguar 1s or 2s are a useful addition. Rolands were corps-level assets, so probably rather stratospheric at your level.

Kanonenjagdpanzers are a fun addition if you just want to do a Territorial force. You can also mount some Territorial units in M113. 105mm-armed M48A2GA2 panzers might also be useful, but nobody makes them yet (a friend converted 5 for me). 90mm-armed M48A2s were in service with Territorial brigades until the late 70s.

Jarrovian:

Thanks for the reference. I tried the page but they're still offline. I'll keep looking.

Jemima Fawr:

Thanks for your guidance. I'll get more BTR-60 PB's and more BMP-1's to fill out the rifle companies and use BMP-2's to fill out the recce elements. I was thinking that I might go with ACRV-2's for the tracked arty command and FOO's and with Skytrex BTR's for wheeled units. Which was more commonly used the ACRV's or the MTLB-U's?
What I'd really like to find is an IMR(CEV) on a T-72 Chassis and the M-113 TUA used by Canadians and Norwegians.
The Germans are a lower priority but I am surprised at how few M-113's were in a PzGr. coy. I thought the number was 14 per company!

Thanks again to all who have been so kind as to lend me your expertise.

Cheers and good gaming.
Rod Robertson.

What we at the time called the 'ACRV' was known to the Soviets as the 1V12/13/14/15/16 series, so they're the same thing. The basic MTLBu APC (used mainly by Arctic divisions) is essentially the same vehicle without the cupola.

IIRC, Nick's excellent intelligence reports from the 80s have shown a mix of BMP-1 and -2 in at least one late 1980s regimental recce group.

Nobody does the M113 TUA yet, sorry. Armies Army were hoping to bring it out at some point, but that might be a long way off.

Was the T-72-based IMR in service then? I thought it was more 1990s. All the AFV Rec photos we saw were T-54/55 IMRs.

The West Germans certainly got the most out of their APCs and IFVs! They only had platoons of 3 vehicles, like the Soviets. The poor old platoon commander had to squeeze in with one of the rifle sections. According to an ex-panzergrenadier once on here, the 'Reserve Section' in a Marder company was apparently often used as a company recce element.

Nobody does the M113 TUA yet

The NM142 is on my list, along with the NM135

What I'd really like to find is an IMR(CEV) on a T-72 Chassis

You mean the IMR-2. We have the IMR (which is based on the T55 chassis)

What we at the time called the 'ACRV' was known to the Soviets as the 1V12/13/14/15/16 series

We have the 1V13 (NATO designation ACRV M1974, battery fire control centre), 1V14/15 (ACRV M1974/2a/b, battery command and forward observer vehicle) and 1V16 (ACRV M1974/3, battalion fire direction centre)

link

Jemima Fawr:

Wow. I did not know that the ACRV was essentially the same as the MTLB-U series. Thanks for teaching me something yet again!

The IMR-2 would also serve in my Ultramodern pool of kit.

Thanks also for clearing up my misconceptions about M-113's and Marder-1's in the Bundeswehr.

Geoff:

I have your IMR-1! I love this little model. Thanks! It features prominently in my route-opening detatchment. I am also looking at other specialized engineering kit from QRF so I may be adding more Soviet kit to my next order when the LAV III's become available. Thanks for being so responsive to the gaming community's sometimes peculiar and parochial appetites! You do yeoman's service and are a great asset to the gaming community. Bravo, sir!

On the M-113 TUA, I am pleased that you are considering it but I also wonder how viable a model that might be for your business, given its niche nature. If there is demand for such a thing then great! However if there is not, please don't take on a 15mm white-elephant on my behalf.

The ACRV's I am looking at to support my 6 2S1's (from QRF) are your models too!

Cheers gents and thanks for your expert counsel.

Cheers and good gaming.
Rod Robertson.

Oh yeah, for your West Germans you'll need a few Panzermoerser 120s from the panzergrenadier battalion mortar company. QRF already do them and FoW are bringing them out shortly. For the OP vehicle ('Beobachtungspanzer'), simply take one of Geoff's Kanonenjagdpanzer and cut the gun off:

As they developed them, they also acquired telescopic sights, though the first ones looked just like this.

Looking up the IMR-2, the basic IMR-2M1 model apparently entered service in 1982, so cool! :)

The one I was thinking of, the IMR-2M2 entered service in 1990. I don't remember seeing these in our AFV recognition books circa 1989/90, but they were out there.

I always remember our US defence studies officer using the mnemonic 'I Move Rocks' to remember 'IMR' (still remembered to this day, Sir!). The GMZ mine-launching vehicle was referred to as the 'Great Mine Zonker'… :)

The Canadians used the turret too Rod, and we're looking to out them on the LAV III….

… Not that I am giving anything away of course ;-)

I always remember our US defence studies officer using the mnemonic 'I Move Rocks' to remember 'IMR' (still remembered to this day, Sir!). The GMZ mine-launching vehicle was referred to as the 'Great Mine Zonker'… :)

…and I Plunge Rivers for the amphibious IPR.

Yea, I'd go with the BTR-60PBs.

I recommend at least a platoon of the PT-76s, since they can be used for recce vehicles too.

I've got a company of those, since I plan to do some amphibious landings, and/or early Cold War scenarios where they were "the" tank for the units.

They go great with T-54s/T-55s.

Don't forget, if doing earlier West Germans, they used platoons of 5 vehicles, and 16 or 17 per company, depending upon the unit type.

Geoff:
Be still my beating heart! You will bankruptcy me sir! I can hardly wait! …. For the models, not the bankruptcy.
Cheers and thanks again!
Rod Robertson.

Thanks Mako 11!
I may pick up a platoon or two of the PT-76's although I have always hated the death-trap tin cans! Of course that means investing in a company of naval infantry…. sigh! This is snowballing out of control!
Cheers and pending insolvency!
Rod Robertson.

You will bankruptcy me sir!

I hate auto correct!