"Alien Invasion: Logistics" Topic

Had a thought this AM as I got ready for work.

Aliens invade your country. REALISTICLY, how long is the response time, and what is the escalation of forces/authority?

Example: Something lands in Kansas. USAF probably tracked it in and may have birds circling. Local Law enforcement probably starts to confine the area in the next hour or so. Governor calls up National Guard, some units might be able to respond in 6-12 hours (24 more likely). USAF and US Army troops might start to deploy in the same window as the NG, but more likely a Heavy force would need 48 hours.

Discuss

Response time?

I for one welcome our new alien overlords.

Let's hope there are OPLANs, SOPs, Protocols, etc., throughout governmental agencies and places like the UN for such an "event". Because if this occurs however unlikely, we will have to unite as a planet to deal with such a threat if we can at all. Many very respected scientists, have said something to the effect. That if they can traverse light-years of space. And decide to land here, and not have peaceful intentions. We Terrans will most likely have a very hard time getting rid of them. As their tech will be very much more advanced than ours.

IRRC, in the 60s(?) Think Tanks called this "The Conquistador Effect". As we know how easily in many cases. When the Conquistadors from Europe landed in the "New World". Their Tech was much more advanced than the local indigenous populous. And it didn't turn out too well for them.

If we only could direct the aliens actions in the direction of Daesh, AQ, etc., … That would be the only plus …

I always liked this:

YouTube link

Legion4, so if we wait for the "protocol" how long do we add?

On a more serious note… I agree with Legion 4 – there is always the question if ANY armed response is a good idea.

Probably figure upwards of a week before we'd even consider any kind of provocative response.

Short of the aliens landing and starting to 'heat ray' everyone, I expect we'd keep the guns under wraps until we at least had some form of rudimentary communication.

Not to mention if they land in Kansas one in three people can be armed in minutes and at least start sniping at an invasion force.

I would prefer something like this

YouTube link

If they invade it proves they are very stupid aliens. If I have the tech for interstellar travel I have the tech to destroy humanity without getting my feet wet. Something as simple as, grab a rock, accelerate, drop rock on target.

What exactly could humans do? We can outrun any missile you have, and short of a ramming mission by the shuttle, what other options are there?

I drop rocks until you surrender. THEN I land in Kansas or Siberia to accept your surrender and put my own government in place.

Legion4, so if we wait for the "protocol" how long do we add?

Now that you mention it … if we wait for that … it may be too late !

And yes, I in turn agree with Ghostrunner. Unless they come in fighting … We may want to find out why they are here. And their intentions … at least. Hopefully it won't be a "Childhood's End" scenario. But if it is … we probably couldn't do anything much about it anyway …

If they invade it proves they are very stupid aliens.

Well even though they have high tech does not mean they don't think like Klingons !

We just need some longbows and swords. I know this because I read it in Poul Andersen's High Crusade link

Be welcome – but prepared!

Yea, probably 24 hours plus, assuming our leaders can even make a decision.

Expect massive and lengthy dithering if the aliens don't come out shooting right away.

Regardless, any aliens that can get here from another star system will be so superior to us that there'll be nothing we can do against them, I suspect.

It'll be rather like a sugar ant colony fighting a human that has a full spray can of Raid, bug killer.

Can you say extermination?

And Extra Crispy for the win. While our fiction is full of wonderful alien invasion stories (many that are fun to war game) in truth, at this time and place, if, if, a species capable of interstellar travel where to land in Kansas or anywhere else on earth it means they have reason to not want to open hostilities. And even it they did want to come to conquer we'd last about a day at best before all of our modern military forces would be toast. After that the insurrection begins and even that would be dubious. Consider how much surveillance and tracking of personal information is currently in play. Now expand that a hundred fold and explain how you would effectively resist an alien overlord that has the technology to cross the vast cosmos?

Perhaps the question should be turned on its head and discuss how and why would such an advanced interstellar race manage the logistics to come and conquer? Why would they do so?

Based on protocols set after 9-11, Homeland security can have the basic perimeter up within 15min.

This would only be effective if the Aliens..
Use Roads
Don't have overwhelming numbers
Don't have a weapons technology considered overwhelming

Based on protocols set after 9-11, Homeland security can have the basic perimeter up within 15min.

In my thinking LEO. What's next and how long?

If, and I say if, an alien invaded with ground combat intent then Kansas is safe, nothing there to invade for. They would go for either, a defendable bridgehead while they build up forces, or the heartland of the main resources they use.

If you wanted a small base to build up in, then Ireland would be ideal, anywhere smaller would be containable, even at our tech level. If you need a large area to build up in, then Australia.

The biggest danger to Aliens landing in the US would be TSA inspection.

you mean if they invade again?

If they're "invading" Kansas, they probably want our beets and corn. Maybe they use corn syrup for fuel. They may start out trying to barter with the locals, but then one of them goes into the wrong bathroom and gets shot for being a pervert.

The aliens retaliate by seizing the shooter, and the locals attack their space ship. The military sets up an exclusion zone and starts evacuating people. Reporters refuse to leave; some hide near the alien ship to keeping taking video.

The aliens are just merchants or scientists, so they don't have any weapons of mass destruction. Hilarity ensues.

That's movie number one.

OK, suppose it's a real invasion -- movie number two.

What are the invader's objectives? (Did the 1960s tv series The Invaders ever answer that question?) The answer to that question will determine their strategy and tactics.

Possible objectives might include:
-seizure of critical resources
-establishment of military bases for uses unrelated to Earth
-resettlement of alien population here

Generations of abductions have given the aliens some good intelligence about Earth, as well as some decidedly weird ideas. They know our languages. They may undertake pre-invasion operations. The nature of those operations will depend on their objectives. For example, they won't try to provoke a nuclear war if they want to settle their population here.

This needs some more development before it's ready for a screen treatment.

Going back to the OP, USAF is definitely in the air, and there will certainly be a media blackout in effect -- but the heroes of the movie will be secretly recording the corn-and-beet negotiations and will smuggle their cell phones out of the exclusion zone and broadcast them.

They'll be prosecuted for terrorism, of course.

It all depends on what They do. If they just drop out of hyperspace and drop some rocks at the points indicated then that's it.

You'd like to think there was a plan but I'd imagine that in Britain, the planning session was marked by lots of bad Dr Who jokes and a sharp departure for beer and curry parade.

I'd not get anyone's hopes up but I think I've read that some elements of the Falklands Task Force had a slightly faster response time to readiness due to some sensible blokes watching the news and starting to make discrete phonecalls to get things moving in case. So I'd imagine that if there was some kind of window then some elements would be readier than others but that's it.

And the conquistador effect trumps all IMHO. Beyond that much depends on the alien motivation.

An alien species wanting to replace us on the planet would undoubtedly use the most cost-effective means available,whether this meant something like "The Screwfly Solution",or the alien equivalent of Roundup; they could simply scatter a virus fatal to humans in the atmosphere,and come back 20 years later and set up shop.Of course,they'd need to abduct a few people first for study. Hmm…

Of course,as has been suggested,they may enjoy sport. I read an SF short story decades ago with that scenario. Aliens land,bringing all sorts of advanced technology and training,including,eventually,space flight, which they magnanimously give away,"for the betterment of mankind". Skeptics are won over. Humanity will go to the stars! In the last scene,someone takes one of the aliens duck hunting. As they wait in the reeds,waiting for the ducks to take flight,the human explains,"We always do this. We don't believe it's sporting to shoot sitting ducks."

The alien answers "I understand. Neither do we".

Rocks are out – they risk destroying the galaxy's only source of new cat videos.

If they landed around here, the gun lovers and hunters would have them massacred in the first half hour. By the time the government showed up the heads would be at the taxidermists and their carcasses would be hanging off the corner of the house curing to turn into puppy chow.

Hasn't anyone read "Footfall" by Niven and Pournelle?

link

"The biggest danger to Aliens landing in the US would be TSA inspection."

They'd be evenly matched vis-a-vis probing attacks… :p

Footfall is a favorite.

I was thinking "Footfall" also. It's a bit silly, but makes a good point about aliens having different cultures/expectations, and thus not conforming to our "logic" for a planetary invasion.

It might not occur to them to simply blast us from space )or my nightmare scenario, cook up a pathogen that we never realized was alien as it killed us all).

If they wanted to wipe out humans they could reduced the number by 90% by just destroying the infrastructure. We wouldn't all last long without being supplied with food, water, power and shelter that we don't know how to get from the land.

But our biggest defense is the national debt. There isn't enough money in the universe to pay it.

Doesn't matter who invades the USA, each branch has a QRF unit on standby in the USA.

Army 82nd Airborne has a ready unit on standby that can deploy any where in the world. Same for Army special forces. The Old Guard (guards the unknown soldiers tomb in Washington d.c.) has an armory and can deploy to secure key areas in Washington d.c.

Navy DEVGRU has a unit on standby in the USA at all times. Each squadron rotates through training, deployement and on call.

Marines: I know they have a unit on standby to help defend the White House and Camp David. Wouldn't be surprised if they have a QRF unit like the 82nd Airborne does.

AirForce: During the cold war they had flights on standby. When 9/11 happened we know the air force no longer had such ability. Since 9/11 we know the Air Force has flights on standby again.

National Guard Units: Where I live we have a Air Guard unit and a Army reserve unit. Air Guard unit has people on duty there 24/7, so they could deploy something. Now for the Army reserve unit, they have a few active duty folks there day to day. But other than during their training time, everything is locked up and no one around.

Then you have local police, after 9/11 NYPD's swat teams and regular officers were deployed around new York for a possible ground attack. If I remember reading correctly they were reinforced by reserve and guard unit with in 48 hours.

So the USA has the ability to counter an invasion with in the first 24 hours. But based on my limited knowledge, nothing heavy for the first few days.

Zephy1 for the win!

how and why would such an advanced interstellar race manage the logistics to come and conquer?

I'd assume they brought a factory ship with them, and park it in the asteroid belt. It then makes the things they need for ground combat.

gets the logs trail down to light-hours instead of light-years.

If you want alien invasions with logistics, there's quite a bit here:

link

But, but, but…what if the saucers come for our women? We need to keep our shotguns handy.

Doesn't matter who invades the USA, each branch has a QRF unit on standby in the USA.

Yes, many RDF units like the 82d, 101, RANGERs, etc. have Division Ready Bdes(DRB), etc., down to Initial Readiness Companies(IRC) ready to go. On stand by 2407-365. I pulled that duty a number of times '80-'81.

And all active duty units have standing operating procedures for rapid recall and deployment. With lighter units being the first to move as they don't have a lot of heavy equipment, etc. So in theory if the aliens did a proper recon … the military would be their 1st targets along with infrastructure, orbital assets, etc. …

Also as some noted with many hunters, gun collectors, etc., in the US. There would be many small irregular "militia" insurgent types literally coming out of the wood work. And those in rural isolated outlining areas would probably have of the best chances for having survivors. And those with hunting, camping, outdoorsman, etc., skills would probably be able to survive the longest. And it they really go way off the grid. May not even be noticed ? Heading for the hills may be your best move.

If you want alien invasions with logistics, there's quite a bit here

Very true … but as some scientists pointed out. Generally there is nothing here that can't be found in many other places in the galaxy, etc., … Unless certain metals are unique to Earth ? But so far it seems that is not the case, AFAIK ?
Of course Humans may be what they come here for ? For whatever reasons ? Which can't be a good scenario, I'd think ! Yikes !

But,but,but,..what if the saucers come here for our MEN?

youtu.be/hOBn-g5VTfM

But,but,but,..what if the saucers come here for our MEN?

That'd be all right by me:

YouTube link

Just, please, warm up that probe a little first…

Any extraterrestrial invader is liable to be at the end of a very fraught supply line. Just because an alien power is more than advanced than us and the civilisation itself is so far ahead of us in capability doesn't mean that they can apply that force/superiority in an invasion.

Let's hope … But with the ability to cross light years of space. Logistics might not be that big a problem ? They couldn't lack that much military savvy for such an important asset ?

If so, we may have a chance … maybe …

But,but,but,..what if the saucers come here for our MEN?

Well if we can direct them to which Men to take … that could be a plus.

"with many hunters, gun collectors, etc., in the US. There would be many small irregular "militia" insurgent types"

Very true, here in the Midwest every hunting season we have the largest armed militia in the world converging in the woods. lol

The problem would be stopping them from shooting each other……

Folks – they're already here:

We can outrun any missile you have, and short of a ramming mission by the shuttle, what other options are there?

I drop rocks until you surrender. THEN I land in Kansas or Siberia to accept your surrender and put my own government in place.

Extra Crispy has outed himself as an alien invader and apparently is their leader

"By the time the government showed up the heads would be at the taxidermists and their carcasses would be hanging off the corner of the house curing to turn into puppy chow."

I'd pay to see that! :)

Oh you mean that it would be the ALIENS' heads…? ;)

The problem would be stopping them from shooting each other……

Wouldn't worry able that … many of these types are pretty effective at "stalking prey", etc. Now saying that hunting accidents do occur … But so do car accidents !

"By the time the government showed up the heads would be at the taxidermists and their carcasses would be hanging off the corner of the house curing to turn into puppy chow."

I'd pay to see that! :)

Oh you mean that it would be the ALIENS' heads…? ;)

Yes … as I said … US hunters are very good at what they do. I've got a couple of friends who keep us well stocked in deer, elk, wild boar, etc. …

You gents in the UK, etc., don't realized, I think, how "good" many of the US/Canadian hunting communities are. When it comes to "putting meat on the table !" With not just fire arms but bows as well …

Extra Crispy has outed himself as an alien invader and apparently is their leader

Good point !

To make this fun to game, which we should remember is the important part.

- Make the initial response mission to determine the intent of the alien landing and gain intelligence.

- The alien ship emittes a LOT of electronmagnetic noise. This disrupts our communications. So the 'recon unit' has to get in, get intell and get out. This may be intentional jamming or they may just not care that they disrupt 'primitive' communications.

- The inital response will be local law enforcement.

- Must municiple police forces and just about every State has "SWAT" teams. If they land close to a city they will be on scene in less then an hour. If they land in the 'boonies' it can take several hours to get them to the scene, assuming helicopters.

- Armed USAF or USN aircraft can be over just about any airspace in US within a couple hours, much sooner along the coast.

- Lots of variables on the National Guard forces. Some States don't have a lot of combat forces. Some have very powerful combat forces. Mustering these forces and providing them with full loads of combat ammo could take awhile – there are a lot of variables to this.

- First properly armed combat forces will likely take 12 hours or so to arrive on site. USMC and Army both maintain forces as part of the Global Response Force, can deploy fully armed battalion task forces to Air Ports of Embarkation in 8 hours or less. Allow four hours for transport.

How about 'The house in November'. Alien much like a giant wasp wants to lay eggs. Area of Kansas (?) in a bubble with a few Chinese, US Army and a couple of civilians and our hero trapped inside. Rest of humanity wiped out.

It doesn't matter because the humans will turn the tide in the end even if the initial response is slow. See ID4, Battle LA, Edge of Tomorrow, Battleship, War of the Worlds, Mars Attacks!, Falling Skies, etcetera.

Watch out there 28mm ! You may be DH'd for Cheerleading ! That's right for humanity to defeat the alien invaders. We wouldn't want to upset all ETs/off world aliens, etc., on TMP …

Why would an advanced technology bother with landing troops and shooting at individual humans?

Alien advanced probes could easily drop engineered microbes to kill all humans, mammals, flora, etc. on the planet.

By the time their colony ships arrive with settlers, the earth will have been terraformed to their needs.

Look at humanity's own history. Whenever a more advanced civilization has met a less-developed one, it has destroyed it completely. While we know of conquistadors, Western cowboy vs Indians expansion, etc. It wasn't wars that killed-off the majority of the original populations of No. and So. America, but disease that the Europeans brought.

If aliens wanted the earth, they'd wipe us out before we even knew they were out there.

That would probably the most logic paradigm. Let's hope it's only a theory …