| Tango01 | 30 May 2016 10:17 p.m. PST |
"In 1941: Fighting the Shadow War: A Divided America in a World at War, historian Marc Wortman depicts how President Franklin Roosevelt led America into war long before Pearl Harbor while the nation remained deeply divided over its role in World War II. By September 1941, American "Neutrality Patrol" ships were sailing deep within Hitler's declared Atlantic Ocean combat zone. Violent confrontation between the U.S. and Germany was inevitable. The first shots of the "undeclared war" were fired on September 4, 1941. That day, deep in the North Atlantic, a naval destroyer, the USS Greer, steaming to Iceland, which American forces had occupied in early July, shadowed a German submarine. The Greer's skipper trailed the U-boat to alert British forces. After a British patrol plane attacked the U-boat, the German commander, believing he was under attack by the destroyer, fired torpedoes in response. The Greer returned fire before breaking off the attack. FDR knew that this "unprovoked" attack involved threatening American action. But those German torpedoes gave him the "first shot" he believed he needed to commence open hostilities. It was time to inform the American people that "undeclared" war had begun…"
Full article here
link Amicalement
Armand |
| Charlie 12 | 30 May 2016 10:30 p.m. PST |
And this is news? Not to any serious historian… |
| Tango01 | 30 May 2016 11:08 p.m. PST |
It's a simple article about WW2 history… for news you have to go to Ultramodern… (smile). Amicalement
Armand |
| tberry7403 | 31 May 2016 6:32 a.m. PST |
While it may not be news to us "old folk" a lot of the younger people are unfamiliar with the incident, especially given the sad state of History education in US schools. |
| Simo Hayha | 31 May 2016 6:50 a.m. PST |
im 23 and had never heard of the incident. |
| zoneofcontrol | 31 May 2016 7:21 a.m. PST |
Who won WWII? The north or the south? |
79thPA  | 31 May 2016 7:24 a.m. PST |
Trick question. Neither, the Redcoats won. |
| Patrick Sexton | 31 May 2016 8:20 a.m. PST |
The board is Naval Discussion not 'Breaking Naval News', so I don't see why this article would be a source of censure for Dr. Cruz.
Plus, I did not realize that only items of interest to serious historians would be allowed. |
| TheGaffer | 31 May 2016 10:31 a.m. PST |
Thank you Dr Cruz, interesting. Not something you hear about in standard text books. But I'm only a hobbyist, not a serious historian.
K |
| Jamesonsafari | 31 May 2016 10:41 a.m. PST |
I'd never heard of it
But us naval history isn't my thing |
| Tango01 | 31 May 2016 11:11 a.m. PST |
Happy you enjoyed it boys… new for me too… Maybe the "serious historian guys" need another Forum as "Media Serious Historian"?… (smile). Amicalement
Armand |
| Zargon | 31 May 2016 12:55 p.m. PST |
Sooo… It was the Americans that started it all along. Hmmm, guess we'll have to rewrite history and put out a TV series for History Channel. Who ever said history was a serious subject in this day and age was seriously misguided, now knowing all those NFL scores That's important ;).
BTW I'm an older un, first time I heard of this incident too, sounds like the sinking of the Lusitania incident in 1915 during WW1, wanna join a war? Make the excuse.
Thanks nice to still be learning things about world historical events and the connections to time lines and reasons why. |
| tberry7403 | 31 May 2016 1:12 p.m. PST |
Actually a lot of what Roosevelt did prior to Pearl Harbor, especially lend-lease, helped build up the American armaments industry BEFORE we needed it. This was so we would not be in the same position we were in during WWI when we had to buy artillery, planes and tanks from the British and French. |
| nazrat | 31 May 2016 3:37 p.m. PST |
I wasn't familiar with the incident either and I'm 56. But leave it to the stuck up TMP "serious historians" to snot up the thread with their attitude. I guess if they know something nobody else can have a chance to learn about it. Sheesh. |
| Ram Kangaroo | 31 May 2016 5:26 p.m. PST |
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| Tango01 | 31 May 2016 10:57 p.m. PST |
Glad you enjoyed the article too my friends!. (smile) Amicalement
Armand |
| Mobius | 01 Jun 2016 6:04 a.m. PST |
I don't think the British would be too thrilled if a "neutral" ship was tracking a British convoy and was radioing it's position to the Nazis. That not neutral behavior. |
| Rudysnelson | 01 Jun 2016 8:13 a.m. PST |
A number of active duty servicemen were allowed to fight against the Germans and Japanese before the Americans got involved. The Lend Lease programs was not neutral behavior either. We all know about the pilots who fought against the Axis. We did send advisers with the lend Lease equipment. |
| 138SquadronRAF | 01 Jun 2016 10:41 a.m. PST |
The loss of the USS Reuben James (DD-245) in October '41 failed to give Roosevelt his war either. YouTube link |
| tberry7403 | 01 Jun 2016 11:00 a.m. PST |
…failed to give Roosevelt his war either. So true. Roosevelt was a bloody-minded warmonger who was only able to get HIS war by tricking the Japanese into bombing Pearl Harbor.  |
| PHGamer | 06 Jun 2016 11:53 a.m. PST |
My nephews were stunned to find out we fought a war with Japan. |
explores another variant in the European Buildings range.