"Bullets on silk" Topic

What happens when black powder era bullets strike silk standards?

Clean bullet holes or larger tears in the fabric?

I did myself a mini-diorama of the British 57th ("Die hard, my men, die hard!") at Albuera, and poked holes in a paper flag, but I wasn't happy with the result.

Any thoughts on what a battle-damaged flag looked like before repairs could be made?

Just to stress, I'm not trying to show the effect of roundshot strikes, just musket balls.

This is the nearest comparable example I could find online, problem is it's not silk. I have a silk military flag and a flintlock musket…but I'm not prepared to do the test!

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It would depend to some extent on how the flag was hanging, wouldn't it? That would would also affect what damage was visible. A projectile passing through a flag gathered around the staff would make a ragged hole through several folds.

Silk was renowned for its ability to resist sword cuts, so I imagine only musket, shot or splinters at full velocity would punch through. With 17 shots piercing the King's Colour of the 57th and 21 the Regimental Colour, it must indeed have been a hot fire that day.

By the way, I recently came across an interesting article in the 'Journal of the Society for Historic Research' from 2008 oabout the 57th at Albuera. The author had reason to investigate the story of Colonel Inglis' exhortation to his men and found that the only source for such words comes from an officer who was with a Portuguese regiment at Albuera but not a witness, writing in the Times in May 1852- "Close your ranks 57th, and die hard!"

Inglis himself, perhaps out of modesty, made no reference to the incident in his account of the action in the United Services Journal for 1832.

The 'History of the 57th' published in 1878, when mentioning the 'Die Hards'' sobriquet, mentions only the sang froid of Captain Ralph Fawcett, 23 years of age who, "being wounded on the 16th May, he desired his men, who were carrying him off the field, to place hime on some high sloping ground close to his company, from whence he continued to give orders, especially urging his men to "fire low" and not waste their ammunition."

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Fawcett did not survive. This, tallying with a reference to an anonymous Captain of the 57th exhorting his men, in the Times from June 1821, would appear to be the closest history can bring us to the traditional story of Inglis and his legendary words.

Alternatively, print the legend!

If shots could be counted so accurately after the action, this would seem to argue for clearly distinguishable holes?

Well, indeed. A fair point. It would depend to some extent on how that total was reached and on what the 1878 report (my source) was based.

"Early in the day, the staff of the King's colour was broken and received 17 shots, and the Regimental colour was pierced by 17 shots during the action."

What comprises a shot- Just musket balls? Any enemy projectile? Did they just count the tears and holes?

p. 53. 'Historical records of the fifty-seventh, or, West Middlesex Regiment of Foot : compiled from official and private sources, from the date of its formation in 1755, to the present time, 1878' (H.J. Warre, 1878- see link above.

Here is an example of musket shot on silk.

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Paul :)

And here 'just for reference, is the original remnant of said 57th's regimental colour.

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Paul :)

Some very interesting replies! Thank you all.

I think I'll rough up the edges of the neat holes I made in the Colour, and add a little scorching, and I'm done.

I'm not bothered if Col. Inglis never said those words – it's not like my diorama came with a speech bubble…..

"It's not like my diorama came with a speech bubble…..

WHAT? Why on earth not?

An interesting digression, Paul, the story attached to the Victorian naval flag, with its melancholy coda.

Presumably anno domini must account to some degree for the wear and tear visible today. Silk is a strangely tough yet fragile material.

Not exactly silk but a cotton/poly mix. I was with a group that got a chance to shoot black powder muskets at any targets we had- all I had was a cheap bandana. The musket was a .58 caliber or so and the hole in my bandana (propped on a log) was a bit less than half that diameter however there were ragged threads around the edge of the hole that probably equaled the diameter of the bullet.

Several of the pics shown look as if the silk has been exposed to father time, and therefore are bigger than they would have looked that day. So just go for what looks right to you.

So, would it be true to say projectiles would tear a hole more than punch through?

By the way as a footnote to my no-fun reference to Col Inglis and the 57th at Albuera, this might redress the balance a little. An officer of the 57th who only signed himslef 'A DIE HARD,' wrote to the United Services magazine in 1829 (Part II, pp 105-06)

"The regiment formed line on its destined position from open columns of companies. Sir William, close to and immediately in front of the colours, was dressing the line on the centre: he had finished with the right wing, and having turned to the left, was coolly scanning the men as they formed, when a shot brought his charger to the ground, leaving his master erect on his feet. At that critical moment, I observed his unchanged countenance, and that while he extricated his feet from the stirrup, he never once turned his eyes from the line he was continuing to perfect, and not until that was completed did he cast a glance on the remains of his noble steed.

When subsequently struck down by a grape-shot, which had perforated his left breast and lodged in his back, he lay on the ground close to the regiment, refusing all offers to be carried to the rear, and determined to share the fate of his "die-hards," whom he continued to cheer to steadiness and exertion; and who, encouraged by the voice of their brave commander, continued to close in on their tattered and staff-broken colours, as their comrades fell in the line in which he had formed them.

So destructive was the fire of the enemy, that in a short time the few survivors must have slept in peace with their fallen brothers, had not the Fusileer [sic] brigade come up to their support by a forced march from the trenches before Badajoz, and by a brilliant charge turned and decided the day. The wreck of the 57th, cheered on by their prostrate and almost exhausted chief, was on the point of joining in the charge, when Marshal Beresford exclaimed, "Stop! stop the 57th, it would be a sin to let them go on!" and when the remnant of the "die-hards" retired, they carried with them the colours shot to ribbons, but unpolluted by a moment's grasp of a foeman.

A DIE-HARD."