surdu2005 | 28 May 2016 4:26 a.m. PST |
I had the opportunity to attend Partizan last weekend. I posted some pictures and musings on my blog: bucksurdu.com/blog/.
I really enjoyed Partizan and would definitely return if my schedule and resources permit in the future. I heard there was some difficulty getting tickets when the show first opened, but I didn't see any of that. I thought the Newark Irregulars did a great job. Thanks to all who helped set it up. Buck Surdu |
GarrisonMiniatures | 28 May 2016 6:33 a.m. PST |
No difficulties with tickets othe than a 15 minute queue – simply underestimated the demand so could have done with another ticket station. |
Grelber | 28 May 2016 7:28 a.m. PST |
The German attack on the French fort does look interesting--I'll have to see if I can find out more about it--maybe I could modify it to have a German attack on a Metaxas Line fort. Grelber |
gbowen | 28 May 2016 8:22 a.m. PST |
Some very true observations. Many including myself believe that the demonstration game is a pointless waste of space. It is usually a trick to get a club free entry to the con. Far better a short game that we can join in with even if it may not look stunning. It is usually a problem finding time to buy some stuff and play a game within the shot time between arriving and the traders starting to pack up. Very few figure cons go on into the evening. Britcon would be the exception although that is primarily a competition. |
GarrisonMiniatures | 28 May 2016 12:44 p.m. PST |
There are limits to how many participation games you can have – lots of people don't want to participate. Demonstration games have their place, as do trade stands – the only problems are when the balance of the 3 goes wrong. |
Cerdic | 28 May 2016 1:11 p.m. PST |
I like a demo game that inspires me to crack on with stuff myself. Could be amazing terrain, great figures or an innovative idea. So yeah, demo games have their place. As Garrison says, it is all in the mix… |
NickNorthStar | 28 May 2016 1:38 p.m. PST |
I have to say gbowen, I disagree with your statement about Demonstration games being a 'pointless waste of space'. I personally enjoy looking at the creations of my fellow hobbyists, and I don't feel the need to necessarily 'join in'. Taking Partizan as an example, I was genuinely pleased and surprised to see the 1666 Naval Game. My Anglo-Dutch games involve 4 ships a side, to see the 4 Day Battle involving every known ship was phenomenal. And given everything else there was to see at Partizan, I didn't want to play the game, just to admire the work and ask a few pertinent questions was enough. I'd just to pull you up on your damning statement about demo games being a 'trick to get a club free entry to the con'. Considering the hundreds of £s and hundreds of man hours a good demo takes to complete, these cynical clubs would do better spending the £4.00 GBP each to get in through the front door, don't you think? A last note to Buck, one of those featured rivers you liked is actually a product of your own countrymen, it's a Cigar Box Battle Mat, the wide river. |
jdginaz | 28 May 2016 10:40 p.m. PST |
Ok, outsider looking in, why can't you enjoy looking at the creations, not join in, and the game be a participation game? I've spent time checking out the setups on many a game at historicon while the game was being played by others. |
Northern Monkey | 28 May 2016 11:09 p.m. PST |
Participation games are not a rarity in the UK. That said, you are correct that the vast majority of demonstration games have almost zero interaction with people observing them. That's a real failing which is perpetuated by the judging system focussing on quality of terrain and figures. Where the judges do look at what is provided for the onlooker, they usually focus on handouts or static information boards, not on actual physical interaction. Having said that, a 50:50 ratio of participation games and demo games seems to suit the UK system where the six or seven hour show format leaves limited time for gaming. Where Partizan was unusual was that the participation games were lumped together in one place, not all of the tables being easy to access. Spreading them out across the venue would probably have worked a bit better. |
Badgers | 29 May 2016 1:32 a.m. PST |
Personally I go to shows to play in participation games (especially for new rules sets) and do a little shopping. Demonstration games don't add much value for me. |
NickNorthStar | 29 May 2016 1:56 a.m. PST |
Of course we can jdginaz, I did the very same thing at the aforementioned Partizan. There was a Donnybrook participation game being played, nice figures on nice terrain and I watched the game unfold for 10 minutes. A lot of what is being said is far too judgmental. I don't think there is such a thing as 'a' demonstration game. I too have experienced the rudeness of the demonstrators, one gentleman in particular I'll probably never forgive , but equally I've been pounced on by over enthusiastic chaps, in GW shop style, when all I wanted to do was admire how they'd do the water effects. I've ran many demonstration games over the years, and some have been purely 'come and see our work'. But others have been where our club members play a game in the morning, but have invited interested spectators to play us in the afternoon after they've done their shopping. And nobody has mentioned the embarrassing and disheartening times where we have invited visitors to join in, and been turned down all day! It is also clear to me from listening to my fellow hobbyists that we do things differently either side of the 'pond', and to analyse why would take a huge topic in itself. What we shouldn't do is get into 'we do it better than you' arguments, that would really be a pointless waste of time. |
Martin Rapier | 29 May 2016 2:13 a.m. PST |
"It is usually a trick to get a club free entry to the con." Yes, that's right. The only reason we put games on at shows is to save a fiver on the entrance fee. FFS. |
Gwydion | 29 May 2016 3:36 a.m. PST |
So you admit it! Hah! |
surdu2005 | 29 May 2016 3:41 a.m. PST |
All: I didn't mean to start a kerfuffle over participation games vs. demonstration games. Frankly, I don't have a strong opinion; I was just making some observations of what I saw or what other people from the UK told me about gaming shows. Demonstration games are a rarity in the US, so it was interesting to see what a club could do as a group. I was not trying to make a value judgment about the UK model for shows. "If it ain''t broke, don't fix it." i had a great time at Partizan and thank the organizers for putting on the show. Buck Surdu |
surdu2005 | 29 May 2016 4:04 a.m. PST |
NickNorthStar: Thanks for the pointer on the river from CigarBoxBattles Mats. Corey Ring has been a gaming buddy for over 20 years. We don't live near each other any more, so I only see him intermittently. I was an early user of this product, when there were just two or three choices. I hadn't seen this river before from their large catalog of excellent gaming mats, so I didn't realize it was from them. Thanks again. Buck |
Supercilius Maximus | 29 May 2016 4:05 a.m. PST |
Since there doesn't seem to be a normal "critique" thread for this year's 1st Partizan, I'll add my two penn'orth here. I've been attending Partizan, on and off, for about 15 years. This is the first one that didn't leave me feeling either a bit cheated, or a bit let down – not because of the entry fee, but because at the end of a six-hour round trip by car I could never quite justify it with the dim lighting, expensive bar, and rabbit warren venue that meant I invariably missed something I would have liked to see. For me, the new venue and layout cured all of those faults – and then some. I'm definitely not a demo game fanboy, but all of them were well done, all (but one – looked like a solo effort by a Mr Grumpy type) seemed to be keen to engage passers-by, and all (even that one) had top-notch terrain. In that respect, the simplicity of the Anglo-Dutch naval battle was eye-catching. In fact, my only problem with the demo games was that they were so good and engaged my attention for so long, that I didn't have time to play any of the participation games (which also seemed excellent). I'm actually looking forward to the next one. Well done to all concerned. |
thebunkergames | 30 May 2016 10:24 a.m. PST |
Pleased you liked the river in my game Buck! |
Yesthatphil | 30 May 2016 4:16 p.m. PST |
Yes I liked Partizan too … New venue was good and I thought the balance of different types of games was good too (better than Salute e.g.) … I thought the history zone idea worked well although it did separate us (SoA, L&L and NBS) from our games a little (so sorry if you were interested in Edgcote or Naseby and there wasn't anyone on hand to help at the time) … Still, a success and a pleasure … But glad a more distant traveller enjoyed it too (I have benefited from great hospitality when I have been to other countries as a wargame enthusiast and I always hope friends from abroad enjoy our events when they get the chance to visit us) ! Glad you enjoyed it surdu2005! Phil Ancients on the Move/Partizan
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battleeditor | 31 May 2016 1:32 a.m. PST |
@Northern Monkey As one of the judges this year, I can tell you that we made specific note of the willingness of the people running demo games to interact with the public, rather than focusing on playing their game. I was impressed by how many of the people running games this year were willing to take time to explain what was going on, how they had built the terrain, painted the figures, what had inspired them to create the game and so on. Many of the games would have received commendations if we'd had the resources. The naval game was a deserved winner – a highly unusual project, cleverly staged throughout the day, and with something like FOUR YEARS of work that had gone into it. James Morris' Verdun game was remarkable – again, highly unusual visually, but incredibly clever in how it straddled the demo and participation categories using a kind of 'WWI dungeoning' approach. It goes without saying that the vast majority of participation games were well run and engaging – the Minions game took top spot for its sheer sense of fun combined with the obvious thrill it game so many youngsters throughout the day. Henry MWBG |