"Sdkfz 250 for 21st Panzer. Again..." Topic
10 Posts
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krisgibbo | 22 May 2016 12:40 p.m. PST |
I'm painting my way though my 21st Panzer Normandy models and it's time to look at the 250 pile for the Aufklarung. I've read the previous posts from 2012 and Google-Fu has given me most of the pictures mentioned, including the 250 with the y-shaped pintle mount and the other pictures of the 250 under maintenance in what looks like a lane. I read that the cannon used by the 21st was the French 20mm mle 1939 mounted on a pintle and not the Kwk 38. I have a picture of an mle 1939 used by the Germans in it's original state and the gun on the 250 is clearly not this gun. As much as I've enjoyed searching for the information, I'd appreciate advice from more learned parties as my head's beginning to hurt. Thanks.. |
Leadgend | 22 May 2016 9:12 p.m. PST |
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Greg G1 | 23 May 2016 2:04 a.m. PST |
Likewise could you post any links to the photo's. |
Jemima Fawr | 23 May 2016 6:14 a.m. PST |
Here's the beastie in question. Six 250s in the 3rd Company of the recce battalion were organised as a 'gun platoon' with these weapons. I'm not familiar with the French weapon, but this looks like a 2cm KwK to me (the muzzle flash eliminator, recuperator housing and side-loading magazine all seem correct for the KwK).
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Richard Baber | 23 May 2016 10:05 a.m. PST |
I`m pretty sure I read over on the Axis history forum, that photo is NOT from 21st Panzer they are an SS unit! 12th SS I think? |
krisgibbo | 26 May 2016 6:51 a.m. PST |
Thanks very much for the input and clarification. The gun on this 250 does look like a KwK and I've read that this was 12th SS Panzer. The French gun has a vertical magazine and the muzzle does not have the flash eliminator. I have picture of one on a ground mount on the Atlantic Wall and have seen at least one more in a similar situation. I'll wing it with the French gun on a simple pintle mount and use the other guns with my Festung troops. And I will work out how to add pictures. |
Richard Baber | 26 May 2016 7:02 a.m. PST |
Here is a 250 with Breda 20mm the photo caption claims it is from 1st SS
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Richard Baber | 26 May 2016 7:04 a.m. PST |
This is a 251 with a Hotchkiss 20mm belonging to 12SS link |
Jemima Fawr | 28 May 2016 10:07 a.m. PST |
The pic I posted above is definitely from Panzer-Aufklaerungs-Abteilung 21. It's one of a sequence taken of the unit undergoing admin and maintenance in the field. While insignia isn't obvious due to their wearing coveralls, the cap insignia is clearly the Wehrmacht eagle worn on the front of the cap. SS wore the death's head badge on the front and the SS-pattern eagle on the left side of the cap. Perrigault has a side-view of the same vehicle (the same men are working on it) and it's numbered '342', which exactly fits with the position of these vehicles in the orbat (4th Platoon of the 3rd Company). This unit had six such vehicles. The weapon is clearly a 2cm KwK 38. Perrigault does however, mis-identify the vehicle as a 'SPW P107', though it's clearly an Sdkfz 250/1 (Neu). The photos are only partial shots, but you can tell the type from the body shape, tracks and shape of the engine hatches. There is an Sdkfz 250/1 (Alt) with MG34 armament in the same photo sequence. If you're interested, the vehicle numbers are in classic style – large and white-bordered, with a darker central colour (probably red). |
krisgibbo | 28 May 2016 3:04 p.m. PST |
Thanks again. Had a feeling you could be relied on. I have the side picture of the same vehicle (342) and it looks as if there's a hoop for a tarp on the same vehicle. I looked at this shot and the shot where they're manhandling the armour plate and the engine is on view. I couldn't make out any insignia on the uniform but it's the same vehicle. And the information on the vehicle numbers will come in handy. Now to source the KwK cannon from the bits box and get to work. |
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