"Flames of War WWII KIA?" Topic

I just watched a couple sellers get robbed in online auctions for high quality 15mm items. Is 15mm WW II dead or just a lull in the action?

I think the growing enthusiasm in Bolt Action and other period rulesets has influenced the lull. Warlords offerings and others outside of 15mm seem to be going from strength to strength all around.

My FLGS was having the same conversation with a common player. Not sure what the shift was, they did not attribute it to Bolt Action.

I think only a couple of us bit into Team Yankee.

I can't imagine two auctions being any kind of indicator of any sort of market change.

Not dead but depending on the items it may be market saturation and a decline in disposable income that is to blame.

My family is down to a single income and the pennies need to be stretched.

David

Demographics at work is my best guess. I hit my FoW wall in 2011-12, had a good ten year run but burnt out. Only slowly getting back into it now, though I'm also juggling work and family these days.

I think it is "post popular" but not yet obsolete.

It needs a simpler version which is why I've moved to Team Yankee

The area committed to it in my game store has been cut in half. I'm thinking that the tournament scene with it has gotten stale, which seems to drive a lot of the sales.

Unfortunately, by the time people start dumping I'll probably have all of my armies built.

On regards to FOW itself I simply think that Battlefront have spread themselves so thinly that what would have been quarterly WW2 updates now have resources moved in to (theoretically)Team Yankee, pre-painted terrain, Israeli war, WW1, Nam and WW2.

The introduction of the Japanese in to WW2, feels like it has missed the mark, and simply doesn't fit the FOW thing as it's purely been European fronts since its beginning.

If anything 15mm is no worse off, but Battlefront are running out of WW2 to cover without another rules overhaul, but as modern wargaming consumers we grow complacent, if we aren't supplied with new toys every few months.

Just look at GW, they're still pushing the same system but with updated gear every week, and they have no rules competitors for 41st millennium sci-fi, whereas Battlefront have rules competitors who only produce books and no figures.

Just my two pence on the matter. Interesting thought though.

The introduction if the pacific has sparked my interest in FOW again. I lost interest at the end of 1st Ed. can't wait until they start doing the commonwealth armies.

I have a game at 1:00 today. I had better inform the others that WWII gaming is dead! Some of them have a pretty long drive and I want to save them the time.

For what it's worth, we are all pretty full up on the armies we need to play just about anyone or anything. Just because we aren't buying any more doesn't mean we aren't playing.
I sold my Japanes about 2 years ago to one of the poor guys with a long drive, so that's the only new period, but it's covered, save for the mighty tank battles that made Guadalcanal famous.

Japanese in to WW2, feels like it has missed the mark, and simply doesn't fit the FOW thing

The theater is niche at best. No BIGSEXYTANKS.

Its funny, they finally being the pacific out and its kinda stinky.
It just does'nt work with the FOW system, does it? No real tank battles. Hard to make the japs work(what i mean is the fact that the japs never really surrended "in mass" and where perfactly ok with mass banzi charges).

Winston Smith,

There is a big difference between "Nobody Plays" and "Nobody is buying"…

I think I can agree with grunt on this

I am getting an awful lot of ex Fow stuff for buttons on e bay.

Still buying new, but it is infill purchases targeting what is 'missing'.

Rumours of 15mm's death are greatly exaggerated.

When you reach market saturation, sales slow down to a creep. I see the WW1 FOW system didn't seem to catch on as well as Team Yankee at least around my area. I personally thing they have out priced themselves like GW vs Bolt Action which for $125 USD I can get into the fight with some really nice looking models and not need to built 20 T-34's to play the game. I have actually repurposed my 15mm to play bolt action.

"Rumours of 15mm's death are greatly exaggerated."

I certainly agree..I have so much 15mm, it cannot be counted, so it's not dead.

but saying that, second hand stuff is not currently holding any value and that is a reflect of low demand making a flooded market to sellers. The nature of what is sold shows it is former fow players selling it, even when it isn't fow product.

I have picked up models for less than half price, closer to a third retail value and that cost includes the postage.

I picked up 10 plastic shermans for 10 pounds. I will spend more than that on stowage and milliput to jazz them up.

Yeah, even my local group has pretty much burned out on FoW lately. I think we're trying to get some Early War or Desert action going, but I have more points in my Vietnam forces (and lots more air support yet to build).

We're mostly playing Infinity now.

As the wargaming butterflies go off to find the next shiny thing.

I think Flames of War is like ASL in some ways: The game may have passed its peak, but the game continues to exist and I think it has enough traction to keep going for years to come.

People make comparisons to Bolt Action, but they're really very different WW2 games with one being for bigger battles and one for skirmishes. There aren't many other company level WW2 games that approach FoW in terms of sales and popularity.

People keep saying "they are different games" when comparing Bolt Action to FoW, but that doesn't mean they still can't eat into each others market share.

At my LGS players don't see it as "well this game plays different so it is nothing like game X". Players see it more as "This game is WWII, this other game is WWII, I will leave one to do the other".

I think some people have kept their FoW stuff but most people I know sold it off and bought Bolt Action or Hail Caesar. Wish I could find a game of FoW, need a break from DBM every now and then.

I think you'll find those who are switching to Bolt Action are more skirmish gamers so they're selecting a game that will appeal to them. I find that if you put on a game and provide figures and terrain, you'll get players. There are always players in search of a game to play.

If only that were true! Gamers in my experience generally stay with what they know and eschew new systems. There is only a small subset that will play whatever you put on the table.

Team Yankees pricing is more expensive IMO than regular FoW, I got the Team Yankee book but cant afford to do anything with the game, considering its all plastic and not metal it should be cheap. So I bought a box set of FoW Open Fire to get back into it for only $55.00 USD, the cost of 5 stupid tanks in team yankee (unreal).

@maverick2909 Well I'm just getting into FoW again and I have allot of stuff, if you are anywhere near Southern, IL – I would game with ya.

"Gamers in my experience generally stay with what they know and eschew new systems."

ain't that the truth…even when they relent, they tend to go for familiar

At one of our FLGSs Bolt Action has largely replaced FoW. The TY stuff didn't sell until it ended up on the discount table just a couple of months after release.

At another nearby FLGS FoW has a steady group of 4 guys or so who meet every Sunday. They focus on Vietnam and WWII.

To me, switching from FoW to BA is downsizing the amount of forces on the table but paying more for each model.