"What battle had the worst commander on each side?" Topic

Plenty of great generals, plenty of bad ones in the civil war.

So at what battle did the cosmos show a sense of humour and have two severely lacking commanders get to duke it out?

A battle where both generals were not the best – Perhaps the Battle of Stones River with Rosecrans and Bragg – though they had some good generals under them who performed well and a few not so well such as Gideon Pillow found hiding behind a tree at one point…

Drewry's Bluff 1864 (also known as Proctors Creek) during the Bermuda Hundred Campaign.

Ben Butler vs PGT Beauregard.

Butler alone in any Battle is a candidate.

Kim

Perryville – Don Carlos Buell v. Braxton Bragg.

Be fair Butler was the only Civil War general to realise the potential of the Gatling gun – he's got the only two batteries of the war, provided at his own expense, at the Bermuda Hundred.

Hitler and Stalin.

Worst butchers of the modern era and not very good meddling generals.

Seven Pines: Joe Johnston v. George McClellan produced about the most disorganized major battle in the war.

Worst generals of the ACW… Hitler & Stalin?

That is GOLD. I'm sharing that.

Wolfe vs. Montcalm at Quebec, 1759.

Burnside in North Carolina, first at Roanoke vs. Wise and then at New Berne (I think) against Branch. These two made Burnside look good.

Thinking a lot of these might make for fun scenarios. Let each player groan when they read the scenario rules but are unaware that the enemy is operating under equally bad conditions.

Antietam 1862. Lee puts his ragged half starved army in a hopeless situation with their backs to the Potomac river and McClellan with almost twice as many men can't manage a victory. Over twenty thousand casualties in one day of battle with nothing whatsoever accomplished.

At last. Someone has the stones to nominate Lee the Killer of Americans as a bad general. I salute you!

All Lee was good at was killing Americans, sometimes more of one side, sometimes the other.
But at least he was dignified when he did it.

@Norman

Doh. LoL! Show's how much I pay attention sometimes!

I know that feeling – I once posted a lengthy and erudite (by my standards!) answer about Jutland, on a WWII board!
No end of headbutting the keyboard could undo it… :)

Had to think hard about it, but Panzerfaust's post makes a good case.

Mill Springs. Thomas v Zollicoffer.

Mill Springs, Thomas was a very good General. He a great sense of security. Just think if Gant and Sherman had pickets sent, as Thomas did at Mill Springs out there would have been NO SURPRISE at Shiloh.

Grant and Sherman did have pickets out. Even patrols. Sherman just didn't believe them when they reported the Confederates in the area. Even the day before. Completely Sherman's fault.

At last. Someone has the stones to nominate Lee the Killer of Americans as a bad general. I salute you!

You obviously don't get out much John. The myth that Bobby Lee was a good general was first challenged in print back 1933. Now because it was an English general and military theorist that did it the bally Colonials thought that they could ignore it. The book in questions was Grant & Lee: A Study in Personality and Generalship by JFC Fuller.

There have been a number of works through the years which have argued that Lee wasn't quite the great commander that myths have made him out to be. There are also works arguing that his tactics were more bloody than necessary. However few have argued that from 1862 on, Lee was actually a BAD general. Maybe that is the subject for another thread-Generals who were not actually as good as their reputations.

Generally when people refer to Lee as the "killer of Americans", it is more a reflection on the side Lee chose to fight for than on his strategy and tactics.

Maybe that is the subject for another thread-Generals who were not actually as good as their reputations.

Oh come on. No way will that be a civilised discussion; we already have to put up with too much "Lost Cause" Revisionism here on TMP as it is. Suggesting that Bobby Lee is anything less than perfect will already have people spilling their mint julips and having a fit of the vapours.

I was going to say Corrick's Ford, with McClellan vs Garnett. Mostly because it is both obscure and silly. But the Bobby Lee argument may prove to be much more entertaining.

Please proceed…