"A Review and Summary of General de Brigade" Topic

As one who has played dozens of Napoleonic rules, here's my take on this popular rules set:

madmacsattic.blogspot.com

For those familiar with the rules, what are your opinions?

Good review, and as a US player of the rules, I do wish that more American gamers would give the rules a try.

Thanks scomac …….why do you think that is? Solid rules…..not too complex……is it a marketing thing?

About the 20:1 scale… it is a barrier for me, too. I wonder if anyone has experienced GdB with different basing systems, maybe keeping track of losses on a roster.

Thanks for the review. I've been curious about these rules. I used to play a modified version of the ACW rules "Rally Round the Flag" for Napoleonics that incorporated a lot of the same mechanics. It played pretty smoothly once you learned all the house rule modifiers. Sounds like GdB is a more polished approach. I would have liked it if you had covered more of how the morale mechanism worked since there is a fixed figure ratio. I find rules set with "stands" give an easy way to track unit percentage losses.

p.s. I'm a big fan of C&GII too.

Part of the answer maybe that GdB is essentially the same as C&G II in equivalent level of play but without the steroids(addition things like built in fatigue tracking etc) and ease of use in convention environments.

I too have played them but only as solo (due to no one to play against and don't see the support at conventions to put a game on with them) and found them very good!
Once again the easier choice to go to C&G.
I have since starting moving my collection to 1:20 with mounting plan that allows easy 1;60 grand tactical play.

@ DF How so?
I once thought so too but have since changed my mind set which facilitated the changes/solutions to make it happen… been slow but progressing.

MG

DF…..first off, thanks for checking it out. As for scale, most of my troops are based using the old Napoleons Battles……4 to a stand…..in Carnage and Glory that equates to a 30:1 ratio.

I only base elite or skirmish companies differently. That way I can play both systems at the 20:1 or 30:1 scale.

You can always use a roster system or change scales to 30:1 or 40:1. I've seen both methods when reading the GdB forum…..of course, if you change figure scale, you will have to adjust the tables to reflect a new ground scale……it can be done.

When I play GdB, I just keep it at the 20:1 scale…..it just looks so nice on the table.

Davbenbak…….again thanks for checking it out. As for morale in GdB, first you check units individual if :

- the unit sustains 3 or more casualties from FIRE IN ONE TURN.
- when charging or being charged
- when a unit is at 50% or more casualties
- when rallying from retreat or rout
- when a unit close by routs or disperses

After unit checks, if a brigade has sustained any routs or an adjacent brigade breaks, then you conduct a brigade check

If you google the forum, the entire QRS is listed on the side

One of the guys on the GdeB forum gave me a Quick Reference Sheet modified to a 1:30 figure scale, which all my figures are based on.

The review mentioned the lack of artillery resupply rules. There was an artillery resupply rule in the GdeB second edition, which was dropped in the DeLuxe version, but some people still play that rule.

Rod

Thanks Rod….I have the deluxe edition, but I picked up the resupply rule from you on the forum.

Best set of rules I ever used. I have little time for multiplayer games, but fortunate enough to have a large static table in my gameroom. And while collecting a 28mm Division in 20:1 scale may be daunting to many, aesthetically it worth every penny. I came across these rules about 8 years ago, and never turned back.

I play the rules solo and with a close friend, unfortunately not allot of players in the US. There are a few groups looking at them that have played CLS previously.
Wish more US players would give them a try, as it is a great set of rules.

We have added a few house rules when dealing with certain armies, especially during the 1805 thru 1807 time frame.

I tried several Napoleonic rules while playing games at Historicon in 2009 and decided that General de Brigade was the best. I have had no regrets since.

I really like the 20:1 ratio and the tactical play eg battalions in line look realistic and can be difficult to maneuver. I also like the GdeB active forum for clarification of rules and AAR of various battles. A great set of rules.

These rules are top draw and no mistake
Cheers
Losh

I kinda like GdB, and I even invested in hundreds of figures to ramp up GdB gaming around here, but it just hasn't taken off and I haven't had the strength to push it.

The game has several barriers to entry that I think prevent uptake around here:

• The Deluxe Edition is expensive and nobody wants to spend a pile of money to add another book to the pile of unused Napoleonics rules we all own already. We keep playing 2nd edition instead, which isn't as good.
  
• The game is built for very high figure counts, but not many gamers around here have collections like that.
  
• The game mechanics are a bit on the clunky side and resist a nice "flow", so everybody's first impressions are that GdB is slow, plodding, and hard to figure out. There's no way to get past that phase if nobody wants to play a second game.
  
• There is no order summary sheet to hand out, which is a difficult oversight to forgive in such a high-value, expensive production like the Deluxe Edition, especially when the order system is such an important core aspect of the game.
  

I find GdB to be fun with experienced and agreeable players, but dead slow with new players and easily ruined by rules lawyers. And before anyone chimes in with "all rules can be ruined by rules lawyers", let me clarify that I mean GdB is more vulnerable than many rules and serves a genre notorious for rules lawyering. There are many things left unstated, understated, or unclear in the text.

I also find the basic mechanics to be a bit on the clunky side, and I have never played a GdB game that "flowed" nicely. I've yet to play a "fast" game of GdB. The QRS doesn't help -it's too big and full of data, and the Deluxe version got more difficult to read with the riot of colors and flourishes.

As long as I'm faced with the prospect of providing a couple thousand figures, all the terrain, all the scenarios, all the game markers and props, all the cheat sheets, all the referee decisions, and I have to teach the game and answer the same questions repeatedly…. well, I'm just not that into it. It would help if there were a cheaper "non deluxe" printing of the v3 rules I could ask people to buy, or even afford to purchase and give away to a few key players. The Deluxe Edition rules are a material improvement over v1 and v2, and it would be nice to be able to afford them.

- Ix

Yes, I think the high figure counts put a lot of people off. In the UK, I gather, more games are group efforts, with every one kicking in some figures. I think in the US they tend to be produced by one gamer, who hosts everyone at his house. It can be daunting to paint around a thousand Napoleonics.

I will echo Yellow Admiral on almost all points – it would be great to have a more affordable version of the Deluxe Edition.

Yikes--a thousand figures would give you something in the 10,000 troops a side range, which seems a little big for "General de brigade," no?

General de Brigade might imply that the rules are about using a brigade a side, but they really aren't.

GdeB works well with a division of infantry plus a bit of supports. That could well be 500 figures a side – 10 full strength Austrian battalions would just about do it. We would regularly play games of that size in a club evening with one or two players a side. It was often quicker if there was one player rather than two on each side due to less chat.
Corps or even larger games work but do so best if the players have had at least a few smaller games first to get to know the rules.
One aspect that really can affect the speed of games is the ratio of foot to horse. Too many cavalry regiments, especially if they are heavy cavalry and/or full strength, will slow down the game if the infantry square up to avoid trouble until the cavalry are engaged with each other. OTOH, if there aren't any cavalry to exploit a breakthrough, it becomes easier for the enemy to rally so a second assault might have to develop.

These larger games show the strength of the rules, as long as you have time to play them. Even then, a battle like Dennewitz didn't take too long even with some players unfamiliar with the rules.

I think the rules work even better with 6mm figures, which makes carting the armies around much more manageable.

Yes, I have the set, and I find that brigade-sized engagements much preferable to larger battles.

Can some post a link to the forum?

generaldebrigade.fr.yuku.com

davbenbak,

generaldebrigade.blogspot.co.uk

Then select Discussion Forum (at top right) and it will give you options of forums for all of the various rule sets in the family (ie not just General de Brigade, but also British Grenadier etc).

Rod

In the second scenario book there are several small scenarios that require only about a brigade of troops on each side. There is Maida – British vs French, and Brunswick – Brunswickers vs. Westphalians. Then there is Saalfield, Prussian vs. French, which is about 2 brigades on a side. In the first scenario book there is Bladensburg – War of 1812, also about a brigade on each side. (Use Portuguese and Spanish Volunteers for Americans if you don't have them.) People who have armies based for Column, Line, and Square, In The Grand Manner, or Black Powder, will appreciate the 20:1 ratio. (-"Marshal Ney")

P.S.: Hey Admiral, I am getting the Russians ready. Shevardino, followed by The Great Redoubt.

They sound like a throwback set of rules to me. Very traditional in many respects. That sort of game isn't in vogue any more.

I'm a huge fan of GdB Deluxe rules and have found it very satisfying for 2-3 players or for solo play.

I also mostly play solo battles for a couple of reasons.
1. There are very few people who I know who even play Napoleonic, let alone know the GdB rules.
2. I'll be 70 years old here in a few months and I just don't have the stamina for much more than 2-3 hours of play. With a solo game set up on my 8'x6' table at home, I can take as many breaks and for as long as I want. And since I'm retired, I can take a week to play out a Corps size game. I have the time to take lots of photos so I can come back and see the battle replayed in pictures. Amazing the things I'll see in the photo replays that missed playing the actual game. For example, I didn't realize how well the 45 Line performed until I saw the photos. "The Glorious Bayonet Charges of the 45 Line": link

I agree, that building the units to play an interesting game can require a lot of figures. However, for just a small capital investment and poor as it might sound, here is a solution to start playing without any figures at all (I know, what fun would that be?). Many years ago before I had over 3200 Napoleonic 15mm figures, I cut from colored mat boards (i.e. Red for British, Blue for French, etc.) my own units that were half the size of my 15mm figured bases. I marked each base with unit designations, facing colors, and symbols. It didn't take very long to have respectably large forces. I moved these figureless bases just like those with figures. I drew my battlefield's terrain on large mat boards using colored pens. At half size, a typical 8'x6' battlefield was now only 4'x3'. And, all in all, with just a little effort, it was a very eye pleasing board game.

Again, I'm a huge fan of GdB Deluxe. Well done, Mr. Brown!

God bless,
John T.

GdB is a game largely based on Peter Gilder's In the Grand Manner. While it has developed a long way from that start, it is still a chart driven, big battalion game. I love the look of these games and would gladly play in them, but they are not suitable for large evening games, and I would contend that they are not really very good for the massive games we see played out in the magazines except as dramatically scaled down versions of those big battles. With a dedicated group who are devoted to learning the rules they are great (true of any set, of course) but they might be a difficult sell for those wanting quick action in large games.
(PS, I do not have the deluxe version)

It is rare to see anyone playing 3rd edition in the US. I have played the first edition and now have move to Republic to Empire.

100% with Tyson above. I'll be 67 this year and still busy with a job. Hours are crazy so I don't game much except solo. GdBde fits perfectly for me giving me a satisfying spectacle. Over the years I trimmed down my large collection and happily play with about 1000 to 1200 figures on a 12x6 table.

I find very few Napoleonic gamers in Houston, and those I did find required a cross town trip, and most did not play GdBde. Considering my life style, GdBde Deluxe is perfect.