"Nobody Reads the Rules Any More!" Topic

Ottoathome once wrote:

…no one reads the rules any more and therefore they become unworkable and are quickly abandoned for a new 100/100 (over 100 pages and $100 USD ) set which becomes another part of the stew. Save your money, save your time, write your own. You'll probably come up with something much better. The people who design these things are no smarter or more clever than you are.

TMP link

Do you agree?

The Kael Effect is strong here.

Kael Effect: link

Seems like a tyrannical overreach of the available data.

$100 USD? ?

Length doesn't bother me. Writers can be as incomprehensible in 2 pages as 100. Never saw a 100 page rule set anyway – once you take out the fluff and eye candy.

P.S. Get off my lawn you hippies!

I just make variants of rules, why re-invent the wheel?

It might be a wee bit more accurate to say that
'everyone' (whomever 'they' might be) alters/changes/
rewrites etc., etc. every set of rules which they
acquire…

As usual, Otto is talking out of his hat. So no, I do not agree.

No I don't agree.

The thread linked to is quite interesting but the extract quoted is another of those barely intelligible rants.

Vast numbers of wargamers play commercial rules … one set of those play studiously by the book, to the letter. Another set play more vaguely by the book … yet another set adapt it and play it their way. Other people write their own rules. Many others, and I am one, mix all of the above.

I don't agree with the one rant fits all school of TMP thinking*

Phil
*some of my own rants excepted, of course

Well, the people Otto knows at least.

(Historical) Wargaming is such a niche hobby that people who do it end up being isolated in intellectual ghettos, often interacting with the same dozen people, and thinking that the attitudes, opinions and behaviours of that group reflect wargamers in general. It would make a decent Masters thesis for a Sociologist I would have thought.

IMO of course.

Cheers,
JohnG

Absolutely do not agree. Effective rules writing is very much an art and a science. And anyone who ends up with a 100 page rule book isn't very good at it. wing very knowledgeable about a specific period is not the same as being able,to write a good game.

I might save money by writing my own rules, but I don't see how I will save any time unless the rules are on a 3x5 card, which is fine and I have done, but, sometimes, I want more than that, so I crack open the wallet, blow out the dust, and hand my filthy lucre over to someone. Sometimes I buy rules just to support someone's effort in a period I am interested in.

It would be nice if Otto would name and shame those $100 USD rule books.
One volume. No supplements.
Now, why would anyone would fork over that much swag, sight unseen. If I spent that much, I would have a fiduciary commitment, to say the least, to use it.

Otto's wrong. They are smarter and more clever than I am.

He generally says this (often), either three sentences before, or three sentences after, a page's worth of boasting about and promoting his own games. So I suspect there is some incentive for him to, well, elaborate a bit.

In his defense, he gives away his rules freely. So no one is stuck with paying $100 USD!

There's a logical fallacy to start with. They might not be smarter. They might not be cleverer. They might still write better rules, because it involves different skills from what I have.

I won't play homegrown rules until they have been fully tested with a group to 1) iron out all the kinks, and 2) cut down the author's biases.

Also if everyone only played their own rules, who would they play against?

Edit: I also read the rules I play very thoroughly indeed.

Gamers should agree on the rules when playing a game. Which does not have to be the same set of rules as written down in the rulebook that is being used for that particular game.

There's nothing wrong with assuming rules works in a particular manner if both players agree on it. Wargaming rules are not a legal text. Interpret, modify, and use as you see fit.

And if you haven't read part of the rules, just ignore them.

Rules are guidelines, a framework. Use them as such.

I think a bigger problem facing the hobby is finding someone else who has the same rules that you do! With the incredible number of rules sets out there right now and with more coming out all the time, finding a set that your group agrees on or even in a period that you're interested in is quite the challenge.

The rules we play are one page (front and back), no charts or tables. People read them, get them, know them.

Gamers should agree on the rules when playing a game.

I agree with what I interpret to be the intent, but would say that players should agree on the scenario before playing. The scenario gives the intent behind the specific game, which provides context for unforeseen circumstances, or even overriding the "rules" if they contradict the situation.

I may be spoiled, but the vastly overwhelming majority of the bending to the scenario I see is of the form, "No, you should be able to do that." or "Yeah, but I shouldn't be able to do that, so I won't.". I do not remember the last case of "I should be able to do this.".

I disagree with Otto. I game with Chris Leach, who co-wrote Shako 2, helped with Armati and wrote Battles for Empire. All have his writing style which is clear and concise.

No.

I disagree completely. Rules authors are much smarter and cleverer than everyone else. :)

We took some online free AWI rules and then, with the Author's permission, heavily modified them into being our own set of house rules. Does that count?

Sometimes you just cannot find rules that you can live with. writing your own is a good alternative.

I actually think Otto had a good point that wasn't quoted -- that after being in the hobby a long time you're likely to mis-remember a rule due to its similarity to a rule from another ruleset. I find that this is particularly true for a rule that I've written!

People need to read – and follow the rules.
The biggest crime against our hobby was indulging the notion that "these are YOUR rules, if you don't like them, change them!"
Translation: "In order to indulge every petty wannabe who thinks they're smarter than everyone else, and desperate to maintain sales, we hereby give every player carte blanche to be an ass and blithely ignore whatever doesn't help them look clever, rather than show some discipline and learn to play the bloody game as designed because God forbid we expect any objectivity."
Am I wrong?
Maybe.
But try that changing or ignoring rules nonsense at a Poker game.
"My full house should beat his royal flush."
Or a Chess tournament.
"Castling is a BS move, we don't allow it."
Play. The. Game.

I'm not that smart but my cat thinks I'm pretty cool.