"The 5th Release of GW Epic ..." Topic

There was a lot of "chat" on Tac Cmd link and FB about GW releasing an 8mm version of Epic … Here's some of my thoughts …

As for me … I strongly doubt I'll buy any of the 8mm AT. I've got enough to paint as it is ! And my forces are pretty much filled out. Plus there is a lot of good 6mm sci-fi out there already. This was not the case when AT1/SM1 was released in '90-'91 …

Now that being said, remember E:A only released SMs, IG, Orks and Eldar. I think we may find this happening with 8mm AT. As unless it's a Big seller they won't invest more that they have to. And that will depend on how well the initial 8mm AT is accepted and sells. Remember GW is really in business to make a profit. And that always does not always equate with the buyers' hopes and wants. As I who started "Epicing" in '90 with SM 1 … we saw the rise and fall of Epic in 4 iterations … No they are going to try a 5th. And there is no intel on even the rules systems.
I'm guessing they may add much more detail to Titans like in AT1. It came out first before SM1. And I'm sure they tested the waters with AT1 to see if SM1 would be a viable endeavor. After they thought to try 6mm game that included Infantry, Tanks, etc., … That is just good business.

Now I wouldn't be too surprised if 8mm AT does not meet GW's profit expectations. They don't release the tanks, Infantry, etc. … a they speculate they will. I've seen this done before with GW's management of it's Epic games. Too many times … in the past … As many of us have said … at this point … "Who needs GW to play Epic !?" …

With the amount of 6mm Epic stuff I already have, I don't see myself buying new 8mm Epic product from GW.

Can't wait to see the corporate/fanboy rationalization for changing scale. I know there are a lot of GW loyalists who have been keeping the Epic flame going for years. Changing scales is a slap in their face.

Very annoying, I would have probably bought it in 6mm even if i have tons of models, and i would have probably bought more models but the move to set it in 8mm it's kind of ridiculous. I hope after the release the prices for 6mm epic stuff on eBay will drop :)

As Legion 4 says who needs GW to play epic?

BTW where I read the news there's already lot of people happy for the scale change….

I will wait and see what the new release looks like. I am not interested in "just titans". I want a comprehensive release of titans, vehicles and infantry before I would even consider it. I would need to see at least two complete factions with more in the pipe line.

I am now at a point in my life where I can actually afford the Forgeworld stuff. If its cool enough I would consider changing scales and ebay my 6mm epic collection. I just hope they release buildings and terrain to go with this new scale.

No need to change scale and buy new miniatures. 6mm and 8mm can easily use the same rules system without range adjustments.

Yeah … I think generally 6, [now]8, 10, 12 and some 15mm could work with 6mm Terrain. And some of the new 8mm vehicles could work with the original 6mm. Plus remember Titans were 1/500 not 1/300. Not to mention GW had two or three, different aircraft sizes. And Epic FW vehicles and aircraft were another size bigger than GW versions generally. Confused yet ?

What does AT stand for? I didn't see it spelled out in the original post.

Adeptus Titanicus?

Yep … Adeptus Titanicus … and SM = Space Marine. Sorry …

8mm? Is this some kind of joke from GW?

I'll grab the rules for sure though.

From what is being posted on Tac Cmd [see the link in my first post, the conversation continues] and on FaceBook, it is a pretty much a certainty it will be in 8mm.

Now as time passed many later Epic models "morphed" into 8mm. And 8mm vehicles won't be out of scale with 6mm. As IMO, some for the 6mm models were a bit small.

As far as Titan scale, the old Epic Titans were 1/500 not 1/300 like everything else is supposed to be …

Given how oversized a lot of the 40K vehicles already are I suspect that another 2mm won't make any particular difference! :)

-Will

Indeed …

Hmm, heroic 6mm! ^,^

Forge World minis so 16 to 20 per tank I would think.

Titans what 75-120?

Can't wait to see the corporate/fanboy rationalization for changing scale.

I'll sum it up: planned incompatibility to drive sales.

As I have said many times on Tac Cmd and now on FB. GW is not always gamer friendly. And I'm not alone …

I use this example on FB Space Marine page.
Remember the 2d Addams Family movie ? Where Fester's wife Debbie was upset because as a child. That she got a Malibu Barbie instead of the Ballerina Barbie she really wanted. And turned her into a homicidal maniac. Because of her Great disappointment.
Well don't be that Fester's Wife ! Don't be too surprised if you're disappointed "Debbie" with 8mm AT …

As Jav said, plus probably also due to 3d printing of all of the figures.

I'll be skipping it.

Yep …

Say what you like, Ralph -- Joan Cusack was pretty damn cute in that movie! But, yes, also a homicidal maniac.

I do have piles of the old 6mm plastics and love them.

However, I also have a fair amount of old Ral Partha BattleTech infantry, and they were 8mm. So I'll give the new heroic Epics a look to see if anything is worth adding to the BattleTech squishies.

'8mm' – Seriously, we know it wouldn't be 6mm, but they had to create a new 'scale'? I'd love to have been a fly on the wall of the project meeting that decided that one! Frankly every other manufactuer out there should announce they're planning to release an 8mm sci-fi range just for giggles.

Still the given the elastic scales of titan's previously I suspect that a number of the new ones will find there way into existing Epic collections. As to any future infantry or vehicles I suspect that the online 6mm Epic community will still be trucking along, buying from various sources, well after this new re-issue has been pulled.

I might yet succumb on the titans depending on whether or not Spartan's next Halo offering has taken all my money.

GW never changes, will always try to force folks instead of lead.

This will make it easier for them to say see folks do not want small scales.

Say what you like, Ralph -- Joan Cusack was pretty damn cute in that movie! But, yes, also a homicidal maniac.

I always liked her no matter what movie she did !

Something I always bring up is any alien infantry can be 3, 6, 10, 12 even some 15 mm work for Epic . I have a bunch of Aliens from the 6mm CinC SEM range, Khiff from Darkest Star, etc. … They generally are 6-8mm. But it's a big Galaxy … so life forms will come in all shapes and sizes.

Even the IG have short 3-4mm Abhuman Ratling Snipers and Big 10mm Ogryn.

From many comments here, on FB and Tac Cmd. Some are already saying they wanted a 6mm Malibu Barbie … not an 8mm Ballerina Barbie.

If space marines are 8 feet tall, that means you can use them as true scale marines with other 6mm ranges. Sorted.

If space marines are 8 feet tall, that means you can use them as true scale marines with other 6mm ranges. Sorted.

Only assuming that its not 'heroic 8mm' read +9mm!

Well they are consistently inconsistent …

Changing scales is a slap in their face.

But that is what GW does.

Plus going with 8mm hoses over anyone who might have 10mm stuff as well.

"Who needs GW to play Epic !?"

Well I surely don't since I have:

Eldar
Space Marines
Imperial Guard
Orks
&
Squats

That right Squats they were not dead and gone.

Now for the pricing of these new 8mm Miniatures.

Infantry you can get maybe 10-20 for $30 USD or more.
Vehicles will be $20 USD to $30 USD for one maybe two.
Titans at least $75 USD and maybe $120 USD for just one.

GW sees a chance to gouge and they more than likely will.

Then when sales suck they will just drop the whole game.

Are there any protoypes yet? I would like to see how this "8mm" scales out against the old stuff.

No prototypes that I have seen. But I'd imagine they will look like there larger 28mm FW versions … And be expensive … Of course …

Well I surely don't since I have:

IG
SM
Orks/Feral Orks
Eldar/ Exodites
Chaos/Traitor SMs
'nids
Necron
Tau
*6mm Hammer's Slammers
* Alien Galactic Legion

With a good number of *"other than" GW 6mm Sci-fi models filling out my Forces …
As I have already said, there are many, many other 6mm Sci-fi options out there today …

E.g.:
VANGUARD (DEFEAT IN DETAIL, GREGSTER'S LAB, ONSLAUGHT) vanguardminiatures.co.uk

ONSLAUGHT onslaughtmini.com

MICROWORLD (MICROWASTELAND, DARK REALM) microworldgames.com

DARK REALM link

HAWK hawkwargames.com

MAGISTER MILITIUM (GHQ) magistermilitum.com

GHQ ghqmodels.com

SHAPEWAYS shapeways.com

HLS (EXODUS WARS) link

CINC link

ANGEL BARRACKS angelbarracks.co.uk

GROUND ZEO shop.groundzerogames.co.uk

DARKEST STAR darkeststargames.com

DYSTOPIAN WARS link

BATTLETECH link

BRIGADE link

Off the top of my head …

Plus the Mech Warrior miniatures

Sure not the greatest Miniatures but a very wide selection of vehicles that would fill in for:

Lt Vehicles
APC's
Tanks
Heavy
&
Super Heavy

Plus the Infantry could be use for Marines and the Mech's as Titans/Knights.

I have many Clix

Freezing makes debasing easier.

Hi!

I'm a firm believer in "look at what I do". NOT what "I say".

The last time GW tried to revive epic (EA), they literally pulled the plug within 10 months of its release (the infamous "re-organization").

I am also on the record for numerous years stating that if GW ever revisited epic it would NOT be 6mm.

GW is currently all about managing its trademarks and trying to occupy niches no one does. When you can't compete in existing spaces your only recourse is "make one up".

The current news of the scale increase should be no surprise. A titan only game should be no surprise either. Its the "easy way" for them to approach a "reboot".

To make a "complete" epic line is such a heavy lift at this point regardless of scale that why even bother.

Put out a titan only game and leave it at that. Put out kits to modify the titans and add some other races titans. Its their best bet to get something that may have staying power.

Their trying to intimate they will put out actually infantry and vehicles (as in "real" epic), rings hollow to me.

Given their track record I can recognize unnecessary hype when I see it.

Primarch

We use just about everything for Epic -- GW, Battletech, GHQ, C-in-C, companies I never heard of, models I have no idea which companies produced them, and so on. To us, and by that I mean non-tournament players, if you bring it, we'll figure out what specs it has -- although going to a d10 or d12 would help differentiate things a bit more. You can only go so far with a d6 and we studiously avoid auto-hit and auto-save and auto-kill specs.

We still use the 2nd (?) edition rules. All of us detested the 3rd edition with the generic fire points and blast markers. We felt it took the unique features of models and made them generic.

"Then when sales suck they will just drop the whole game"- Mithmee

And that is why I will adopt a wait and see attitude. If I see some haphazard over priced release come out like a drippy faucet I will not buy. If this is still born it is GW's marketing plan that will kill it.

I would pay and can pay for quality miniatures!

And that is why I will adopt a wait and see attitude.

Based on my GW Epic experiences … that is a very good concept to adopt … As I like Primarch, and some others have seen 4 iterations of Epic in the past … So we'll just have to wait and see …

We also continue to play 2nd Edition Epic, but we are going to explore trying EA, so a new scale and format won't get our group to try a newer game. Many of us have grown weary of GW and their continued disregard to their fans…….. More so then most companies, but I guess, when you produce, both the rules and the figures, you have to be single minded, about profit being the only concern and desire……………

Lou

IMO … E:A is the best version of Epic. If for no other reason it uses Activation … not IGOUGO. SM2 was our least favorite. But as long as you are playing is what is important.

Oh I forgot … to add to the 6mm sci-fi list above … 6mm Quar … link

AND … Khurasan … link

The current news of the scale increase should be no surprise. A titan only game should be no surprise either. Its the "easy way" for them to approach a "reboot".

They already did that.

Okay not Titans but game to try and get their Fanboyz to buy even more of their overpriced Knight Models.

It is only $200 USD or more and you can get a three box set for around $1,000. USD

link

All of us detested the 3rd edition with the generic fire points and blast markers.

Yes that Edition is what killed EPIC back in the mid to late 1990's.

Oh and they kept the blast markers for EPIC Armageddon, which I completely hate plus the forces which use to be large in a 2nd Edition game were cut down to what would be a Reinforced Company/Small Battalion size.

I am not a big fan of EPIC Armageddon.

The problem with 2nd Edition was with the phases and those armies which were heavy in First Fire would destroy an Opponent that counted on movement and closing with the enemy.

Plus the rules were poorly written so an Eldar Titan usually was dead by the end of the first turn because your opponent would just put a barrage marker on it because the rules were badly written.

Was in a very large battle 4 on 4 and me another individual were playing Eldar and we both had four Eldar Titans (we played very large battle with 20,000 – 25,000 points per side).

By the end of the first round of shooting the other Eldar player had lost all four of his Titans due to the other side just plopping barrages down on what should have been hard to hit Titans.

I only had one with a cracked Reactor because I brought pilot skills.

But GW does not put enough into writing their rules and they end up being bad and today they really do not have any good individuals who can written a good set of rules, because they forced out all of their best writers years ago.

2nd Edition is playable you just need to tweek the rules and get rid of the IGOUGO and the Phases.

Oh and while EPIC Armageddon has Activation it is based on a die roll which means that you can still get screwed over if you roll badly.

Also need to get away from the following:

Bucket of Dice
Using D6's

Today GW thinks that if you roll 30-40 dice at a time over and over again you are having a great game.

Going to either a D10 or even a D20 would be far better since the results would be far greater than what a D6 will give you.

I have large armies of EPIC but they have been sitting idle for nearly two decades now.

Also for fine 6mm vehicles, I've got battalions of the plastic (and maybe a few metals) of FASA's Renegade Legion — my favorite hobertanks.

And while not specifically made for sci-fi, I've painted up and use battalions of the plastic MBTs from the game Supremacy (and little plastic mushroom clouds for markers!), and battalions of light tanks and AA guns from Axis & Allies. ^,^

Cinc sells those Renegade Legion AFVs in metal/6mm … FYI …

As I said, we thought SM2 was the least favorite version. We liked a lot of the SM1 rules and systems.

E40K – had some of the best detailed models. SM2 the Worst.

Again, E:A's best feature was Activation. But we were vet gamers since the 60's. So based on the old AH game "Tobruk". We/I added Activation with SM1. We added some of the SM2 features we liked and played a hybrid version.

I no longer game only collect and paint 6mm Sci-fi …