repaint | 06 May 2016 4:20 p.m. PST |
Hello, Experience and feedback of veteran air gamers appreciated: I am hesitating between several period for gaming air combat. I would like to focus on one at the moment because I do not have an unlimited budget neither too much time for painting. I am planning to play in 1/600, with up to a dozen planes a side. I am interested in: -Vietnam war US Navy vs NVA -Vietnam war USAF vs NVA -1972-1973 Egypt vs Israel -Falkland war Argentina vs UK for rules, I would like to play between 4 to 12 planes a side, and I am more looking for a light game with period flavor than a more involved simulation (I play X-wing) Which do you think is more interesting, what rules to go with it? thank you very much for the advice (sorry for the cross post in WWII :/ ) |
Goober | 06 May 2016 4:45 p.m. PST |
I've used Airwar 21 for Falklands gaming. Found it easy to pick up and a very fast playing and flexible ruleset. It's available from Wessex Games here: link I have the Max version which includes the data annex. There is a write-up of a Falklands game we ran on my blog here: link |
Joes Shop | 06 May 2016 5:03 p.m. PST |
Airwar 21 is a good solid set of rules. Another set that is fairly old but provides a good game (as per your requirements) is 'Fox 2'. If you're going with Flights on the table (2 Elements/Sections of 4 Aircraft per side) than you're at low level as opposed to simulating Alpha Strikes so I would go with USN vs NVAF. There are plenty of 'scenarios' available in the standard Ospreys on the subject plus the various historical works. I'd strongly recommend the book CLASHES: link |
Allen57 | 06 May 2016 5:08 p.m. PST |
Vietnam. USN v. NVA. Airwar C21 is a good set of rules with stats for lots of planes throughout the modern era. Another one would be the Wings at War Thud Ridge set available from Tumbling Dice. Both are good and I would buy Thud Ridge for the variable victory condition rules even if you play C21. |
Buckeye AKA Darryl | 06 May 2016 5:16 p.m. PST |
Wow, all four could be interesting. In any case I would use Check Your 6! Players can handle two planes each easily, and perhaps up to four if experienced. Plus they are adding to the scenarios with more for Vietnam: Vietnam 64-68 – The Navy at War Vietnam '72: Linebacker Might you also consider the Korean War…CY6 has a full scenario book already for it, and one does not have to consider missiles. |
Mako11 | 06 May 2016 5:56 p.m. PST |
All of the above are interesting. C21 is excellent for quick play rules. With no Argentinian air-to-air kills vs. the Brits in real life, it may be hard to find Argie players, unless you do hypothetical engagements. Clash of Sabres is an excellent set of rules too, for post-WWII – early 1970s. I came up with house rules and stats for the 1980s to do the Falklands and Iran-Iraq Wars. They use turning templates for maneuvering, and have lots of altitude levels, so they're good for more complex games, with fewer jets per side in your battles, e.g. perhaps two jets per player, and 4 – 6 to a side. I've seen one "kill" by an Argentine pilot vs. a Sea Harrier in the Falklands, using Clash. He became an Argentine hero upon his unlikely return to base, in his damaged Skyhawk. |
Dynaman8789 | 06 May 2016 6:33 p.m. PST |
I really like the rules at the following website, they are free and based on the Mustangs' introductory WWII rules from Avalon Hill. They have four sets that cover, WWI, WWII, Korea, and Modern. link |
Vigilant | 07 May 2016 3:39 a.m. PST |
I'll add my vote for Check Your 6 jets. Easy to pick up and designed for the periods you are interested in. Scenarios are in the basic book, plus a book on the middle east and another on the Indo-Pakistan wars. Vietnam book is due to be published. |
repaint | 07 May 2016 5:39 a.m. PST |
thank you all for the comments and advice. I have been browsing the reviews of the different rules mentioned. CY6 looks a lot of fun but difficult to handle more than 4-6 planes a side. I am keeping it on my radar for one on one or 2 on 2 engagements. At the moment, C21 seem to fit more what I am looking for, but the operational aspect of Thud Ridge is where I will go to start with before upgrading to C21. I am curious about it. Thud Ridge has also an element of Search & Rescue and hidden Sam sites. In terms of campaign, I will do USAF in Vietnam with a few USN aircraft (F4s, Intruders, Corsairs, Skyhaws). I am really interested in the SEA camouflage. A bit less in the Navy grey. The reason being that lately I have painted a lot of 1945 US planes in silver grey and I want green, camouflage patterns for my next US aircrafts. One of the side effect of the purchase is that I will be able to use a lot of left overs to start Arab-Israeli planes. Ok, let's start this project! |
CAG 19 | 07 May 2016 6:17 a.m. PST |
Thus ridge is where I started my love of jet combat. Some suggestions on the game system and tactics etc, can be found here link |
repaint | 07 May 2016 6:54 a.m. PST |
CAG, Do you have a shopping list to recommend say for a USD 40-50 budget? |
Ghecko | 07 May 2016 4:14 p.m. PST |
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Mako11 | 07 May 2016 8:41 p.m. PST |
When you get C21, get the Max version, with all the bells and whistles. F4s and Mirage IIIs, vs. Mig-17s and Mig-21s – Vietnam and Middle East (Mirages only in M.E.). Can throw in some Mig-19s if you have the money, but they're less numerous than the other Migs. F-105s for Vietnam fighter bombers. |
Yellow Admiral | 07 May 2016 10:52 p.m. PST |
I actually recommend against CY6 Jet Age for jet age dogfighting. Last year I played a few dozen games of a Korean War CY6 campaign. The Korean War air conflict featured lots of very intense dogfights, but I found that the expanded capabilities of the planes in JA actually ruin the balance that makes WWII CY6 so fun and interesting. In CY6 JA, planes are able to make such drastic dives, climbs, and stunt maneuvers at the drop of a hat that pretty much any fighter can get away from any other fighter as long as the players are paying attention. Also, the guns are rated so much more powerful that any hit is almost a guaranteed kill (except maybe when shooting B-29s). I made a whole box of smoke trails and flames for marking damage, but I don't think I'd even run out of fingers on one hand if I counted all the times I got to use them in a half a year of Korean Air War gaming. I'm pretty sure that the even faster and more capable planes of later eras would make the gun combat between jet fighters even less interesting, more like Brownian motion with explosions than a game. I can't say how well the CY6 JA rules do missile combat, I've never tried those rules. - Ix |
Mako11 | 08 May 2016 1:57 a.m. PST |
Try Clash for smaller dogfights. I recommend them highly. |
CAG 19 | 08 May 2016 9:57 a.m. PST |
Shopping list shouldn't be anywhere near that level for thud ridge :) The rule set comes with a starter set of aircraft…4 A-7s and 4 F-4C/D models for the US and 4 MiG-21 and 2 MiG-21 for the DRV. So you need to look at adding adding F-105s for the USAF and sky raiders and CH-53 for a SAR effort. DRV defences you can get a pack of SA-2 from picoarmour in the US who also do some of the US aircraft. The oddzial ozmy and TD ones are made of different metal and really depends on preference but the beauty of 1/600th is that it is relatively cheap. |
repaint | 08 May 2016 1:05 p.m. PST |
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