"Casablanca on TCM right now!" Topic
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02 May 2016 9:50 p.m. PST by Editor in Chief Bill
- Changed title from "Casablanca kn TCM right now!" to "Casablanca on TCM right now!"
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capncarp | 02 May 2016 7:21 p.m. PST |
Round up the usual suspects and cuff them to the TV. If Rick can stand it, so can you. It's playing again, Sam! |
darthfozzywig | 02 May 2016 8:27 p.m. PST |
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The Shadow | 02 May 2016 8:35 p.m. PST |
Actually, I always thought that "Casablanca" was a mediocre flick as compared to "The Maltese Falcon". "The Big Sleep", "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" and "The Cain Mutiny". Bogart's acting is just OK, and I've never been a fan of Ingrid Bergman. She looks like a big peasant girl that should be milking cows. |
legatushedlius | 03 May 2016 2:49 a.m. PST |
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LostPict | 03 May 2016 3:26 a.m. PST |
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Murphy | 03 May 2016 3:47 a.m. PST |
TBH, If you haven't seen it on the big screen you are actually missing out. Putting it on the big screen you actually see a lot of the smaller details and things going on in the background, and minor character actions that are occurring that you miss from watching it on TV…. |
Hafen von Schlockenberg | 03 May 2016 9:27 a.m. PST |
My favorite film,going by the criterion of "can watch over and over and never tire of",so I have to disagree with Shadow and Legatus. Bergman? Watch that long closeup as she listens to Sam sing "As Time Goes By"--without moving or changing her facial expression,she conveys a host of thoughts and emotions. How many actors can do that? Although classified by many as a "love story",it's really about the revolution that can take place in a human being. There are a couple of problems,the main one perhaps Victor Lazlo being such a "stick",as Roger Ebert put it,whether due to the character,or Paul Henried's acting. And there's at least one continuity error I know of. Other than that, a nearly perfect movie. There was an interesting short series on PBS a few years ago on the history of Jews in Hollywood. One episode concerned refugees from the Nazis who made it to America and found film work,with help from a support organization. It featured clips from Casablanca,especially the cafe scenes,and identified the actors in various bit parts as well-known performers from Germany,France,Austria,etc. Fascinating and worth seeking out. As for the other films Shadow cites,sure,I like them too,though they're not without problems either. "Big Sleep" is so confused in its source material that Howard Hawks famously contacted Raymond Chandler to ask who had killed one character. Chandler went and looked it up,came back with "I don't know". Attempts to straighten out the plot were only partially successful,but as Leonard Maltin said,"no one has ever cared". And I could never buy Bogart's Sam Spade getting so infatuated with Mary Astor's character,at least as played by Mary Astor. It's a little more believable in the book,but I've never gotten the appeal of Astor,though in the 20s,she was considered one of the most beautiful actresses in Hollywood. Clark Gable throwing Harlow over for her in "Red Dust" is inexplicable(and he turned around and did the same damned thing in "China Seas",this time for Rosalind Russell). How any man could give up Jean Harlow is beyond me. But that's another story. |
Shagnasty | 03 May 2016 9:32 a.m. PST |
I'm with HvS except on the "Maltese Falcon. I think everyone in that film is perfectly cast. I have never felt the appeal of Harlow. |
Hafen von Schlockenberg | 03 May 2016 9:40 a.m. PST |
OK Shag,you have to pick one:Harlow or Astor? |
Patrick Sexton | 03 May 2016 10:45 a.m. PST |
Only wargamers would think that Casablanca is a mediocre movie. |
mghFond | 03 May 2016 11:28 a.m. PST |
I love Casablanca, I can watch that over and over (and have over the years). I still get goosebumps when they sing the French national anthem to drown out the Nazi song. The other movies I enjoyed but yeah, I would pick Casablanca over all of them. |
Hafen von Schlockenberg | 03 May 2016 11:31 a.m. PST |
To be fair,Patrick,the others Shadow mentioned aren't any more wargame oriented than Casablanca(except "Sierra Madre"--"We don' need no stinken' badges!"). And you could "Pulp" all of them,except maybe "Caine". I'm not sure how you could do that one,without putting everybody to sleep. MGH--"Die Wacht Am Rhein". Pre- 20th Century,but yeah: youtu.be/Ai9QVFu47V4 And I'm an old sap,so it's always tears for me.
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The Shadow | 03 May 2016 11:39 a.m. PST |
>>OK Shag,you have to pick one:Harlow or Astor?<< From that era neither one. I'd pick Ida Lupino, Veronica Lake, Frances Gifford or Carol Landis as being the hottest chicks around. I agree with you that Mary Astor was badly miscast. She most assuredly was *not* sexy enough. A friend of mine and I were discussing her casting and we both agreed that Ida Lupino would have been perfect for the role. She could easily do vulnerable, sexy and crafty at the same time.
[URL=http://s439.photobucket.com/user/bielcik/media/2516105670_10c05a865a_o_zps151dfa341.jpg.html]
[/URL] You're also right about "The Big Sleep". This is a true story. I was watching the flick on TV back in the 70's and they accidentally reversed two of the reels! I don't think that anybody noticed. (-: But *all* of the films that I mentioned had much better plots than "Casablanca". Not a surprise since they were originally novels by some of the best writers of the time. |
Hafen von Schlockenberg | 03 May 2016 1:46 p.m. PST |
Well sure,Shadow, if you're gonna go there,Veronica Lake too(Grrrowl!). Sad that she was basically discarded by Hollywood after making at least six great films for them in five years. For me,the most "lovable" 30's actress was Joan Blondell. All a matter of taste. And timing. I remember reading a critic pinpointing the exact moment he entered puberty:when he went to "The Adventures of Robin Hood" in the thirties and saw Olivia de Haviland's breasts wrapped in that white silk dress. When I saw it on tv at age 10,I just wanted to get past the mushy stuff. I thought my turn came with Juliette Greco moaning out one of her torch songs on "Continental Showcase".Her,and Mrs. Peel,of course. On looking them up,I realized that was too late. Turns out (I'm ashamed to say)it was a Pat Boone movie! Christine Carere showing her legs,and Barrie Chase stripping,in "Mardi Gras". Well, timing is everything.Those scenes seem mild now,but when I was twelve--yeow! I love 'em all,back to the silent era. I don't dare put it up,but here's a fave: Anita Page,who at one point in the 20s, was getting more fan mail than any actress in Hollywood,including a bunch from a smitten Benito Mussolini (NSFW): link |
Fort Buttigieg | 03 May 2016 3:06 p.m. PST |
Patrick absolutely nailed it. |
The Shadow | 03 May 2016 3:47 p.m. PST |
>>I thought my turn came with Juliette Greco moaning out one of her torch songs on "Continental Showcase"<< For me it was Jeanne Carmen in "The Monster of Piedras Blancas" and Marilyn Monroe in "Some Like It Hot". :-) |
Hafen von Schlockenberg | 03 May 2016 6:14 p.m. PST |
I wasn't allowed to watch Marilyn Monroe,and I missed "Monster",somehow.I'll have to look for that one. Allison Hayes in "Attack of the 50 Foot Woman" was very "disturbing" to my eleven-year-old mind… "HARREEE!!" |
The Shadow | 03 May 2016 6:55 p.m. PST |
Hafen "The Monster of Piedras Blancas" trailer is on youtube. In fact, I think that the whole movie might be. It wasn't a great flick, but Jean Carmen was a pin-up queen. Back to "Casablanca" though. When I got out of the service back in 1969; WNEW, a local TV station owned by Warner Brothers, was showing a different WB flick every night! and, of course, "Casablanca" was in the mix. So there I was, watching classic WB movies all in a row, so "Casablanca" was sandwiched between Maltese Falcon, Adventures of Robin Hood, Dawn Patrol, Treasure of Sierra Madre, White Heat, Captain Blood, Angels With Dirty Faces, plus other stations were running Duck Soup, King Kong, Gunga Din, Bride of Frankenstein and many many other classics. For me, "Casablanca" paled among these super memorable films. |
capncarp | 03 May 2016 10:06 p.m. PST |
"And I'm an old sap,so it's always tears for me." Me, too, Hafen.<sniff> |
Hafen von Schlockenberg | 03 May 2016 10:28 p.m. PST |
Warners is my favorite studio for 30s and 40s films. Grittier than the other studios,more socially conscious. Even the great Busby Berkeley musicals addressed the Depression:the finale of "Goldiggers if 1933" was "Remember My Forgotten Man",about the WWI vets who were out of work. Worth watching: youtu.be/CzMy7-7WV44 This was made just months after the destruction of the Bonus Army encampments in Washington DC. Warners was the only major studio to support FDR for president. Sam Warner wanted to make a movie exposing Nazis as early as 1936,IIRC,but was threatened by the State Department. I believe "Confession of a Nazi Spy",1939,was the first anti-Nazi film out of Hollywood. Some of the films you cited weren't by Warners, BTW--King Kong,Gunga Din-RKO,Bride-Universal,Duck Soup – Paramount,but I'm guessing you know this. All great movies,including,(ahem!)yes,Casablanca,which appears on many all-time greatest lists. We won't be changing each other's minds,so let's just say "De gustibus non est disputandem" and leave it at that. Besides,I feel that way about "Gone With the Wind". |
The Shadow | 04 May 2016 7:05 a.m. PST |
>>"Gone With the Wind".<< Vivien Leigh was an incredibly good actress, and beautiful, but GWEW, IMHO, was just an overblown, over rated soap opera. >>Some of the films you cited weren't by Warners, BTW--King Kong,Gunga Din-RKO,Bride-Universal,Duck Soup – Paramount,but I'm guessing you know this.<< Natch. :-) Our local station, WOR, ran all of the RKO stuff on "Million Dollar Movie". They ran the same movie every day for a week. Then ran the same movie 3 times on Saturday and 3 times on Sunday! I watched Gunga Din so many times that I know every line by heart. LOL WABC ran all of the Universal horror flicks during the "Shock Theater" run. Zacherle ended up hosting the show. |
boy wundyr x | 04 May 2016 2:12 p.m. PST |
I like Bogart in just about everything, his scene with the underage Albanian girl where she asks his advice on what it means if a good person does a bad thing for a good reason is brilliant, you can read everything through his face. Bergman I'm sort of so-so on over her career, I just don't believe her sometimes, but she's pretty good in this. But Claude Rains, man, did anyone ever have so much fun with a part? Unfortunately these kids today just don't get the reference when I say something ridiculous and tag on "It's the romantic in me." |
Hafen von Schlockenberg | 04 May 2016 2:30 p.m. PST |
RKO--Did they run the great,moody Val Lewton horror series from the forties? The inheritors of the "adult" horror movie mantle from the classic Universals of the thirties,at a time when the "new" Universal decided the juvenile market was more lucrative. My sister gave me the Lewton set for Christmas several years ago.Excellent set,with commentary and a documentary. Includes the rarely seen "Ghost Ship"(I'd never seen it),usually compared to "The Sea Wolf",but reminded me of Conrad. The series is notable for making women the leads in several of them,not ankle-twisting clichés either. I recommend the set. BTW,there's now Svengoolie Saturday nights on MeTV,one of the broadcast subchannels. Um,boy wndyr,did you precede that with "I'd like to think you killed a man"? |
Hafen von Schlockenberg | 04 May 2016 6:22 p.m. PST |
And before this drops off the Home Page into the misty morass of Pulp Media,good discussion, guys. You've brought up some old memories. Thanks,Capncarp--bet you didn't think you'd stimulate so much thread comment! Just goes to show…something… Oh--I know: "The fundamental things apply, As time goes by…" |
John Leahy | 04 May 2016 6:41 p.m. PST |
Casablanca and Maltese Falcon are two of my favorites. The supporting cast pushes what are good movies into the EXCELLENT category in my opinion. I agree about Bogey in the scene with the young couple in the casino allowing them to win the money to escape from Casablanca. Simply incredible acting. I am a big Bogey fan. While I prefer the story from Maltese Falcon the casting of Mary Astor as the femme fatal did not work for me. The Big Sleep has the benefit of having Bogey and Bacall on the screen together. However, the supporting cast in general and story line are weaker. Bogart has many excellent movies. I am also a fan of Key Largo. I could go on and on. Thanks. |
The Shadow | 04 May 2016 7:40 p.m. PST |
>>RKO--Did they run the great,moody Val Lewton horror series from the forties?<< Sure did. The Body Snatcher, Isle of the Dead, Cat People, etc. I don't recall seeing The Seventh Victim though. |
The Shadow | 04 May 2016 7:43 p.m. PST |
>>The Big Sleep has the benefit of having Bogey and Bacall on the screen together. However, the supporting cast in general and story line are weaker.<< I thought that thee novel "The Big Sleep" had a great plot. Unfortunately, the pornography angle was only hinted at in the film. That created a lot of confusion. |
Hafen von Schlockenberg | 04 May 2016 8:39 p.m. PST |
Seventh Victim is another one I'd never seen until the DVD set. A strange movie. Maybe TV stations were wary of the suicide plot-line back in the day,though it probably had more to do with packaging. Contributing to the weird aura was the fact that Tom Conway was in it,playing the same psychiatrist character he'd played in the earlier Cat People,which,considering what had happened to him in that film,must have struck the Rosie the Riveter film audiences as distinctly unnerving. The commentary suggests it was "set" before Cat People, but it still seems odd,if you watch them in sequence. Conway had earlier replaced his brother,George Sanders,in the Falcon series,when Sanders tired of it. Speaking of suicide,Sanders wrote the best note ever: "I am leaving,because I am bored". |
The Shadow | 05 May 2016 7:29 a.m. PST |
>>Conway had earlier replaced his brother,George Sanders,in the Falcon series,when Sanders tired of it.<< I never really understood why RKO started the "Falcon" series. It was so much like "The Saint" series that they were, to me, indistinguishable. The first film in "The Saint" series was, IMHO, the best. It starred Louise Hayward as Simon Templar, and his portrayal of the devil-may-care, homicidal mercenary made "The Saint In New York" the best of the Saint/Falcon series. It was unusual to see a "good guy" who was more of an anti-hero murdering gangsters with no remorse whatsoever. Templar wasn't a cop or a detective. He was just a civilian who killed people that he felt needed killing. His relationship with Inspector Fernak is also interesting. The inspector knows that Templar is a necessary evil as the police have been unable to stop a crime wave, but he's leery of Templar's methods. This is one of my favorite B movies of all time. Up there with the best of the Charlie Chan and Sherlock Holmes flicks. The rest of "The Saint" series with George Sanders became progressively more like a standard "B" detective series as time went on. The last films of the "Falcon" series were so far removed from the style and attitude "The Saint In New York" that you would never know that there was any relationship. |
Hafen von Schlockenberg | 05 May 2016 4:49 p.m. PST |
The short and obvious answer is: because they tought they could make money. They must have been right,since they kept making them. Apparently audiences in the 30s and 40s really loved film series. They almost always ran down in quality,especially the B's; they would get people hooked,then start cutting the budgets. Of course,nothing ran downhill as precipitously as Charlie Chan after Monogram took over from Fox :) BTW, GetTV,one of the broadcast subchannels, was just running Warner Baxter's Crime Doctor series. They were showing a lot of old obscure Colombia pics I'd never seen (it's owned by Sony). Unfortunately,just a couple of days ago,they switched to carrying a bunch of 70s -80s TV shows. Rats. |
The Shadow | 05 May 2016 6:11 p.m. PST |
>>They almost always ran down in quality,especially the B's; they would get people hooked,then start cutting the budgets. Of course,nothing ran downhill as precipitously as Charlie Chan after Monogram took over from Fox :)<< The Charlie Chan series was a fairly unusual situation. Series flicks don't usually jump to lesser quality studios. They normally start as B films produced at major studio's B units or begin and end at B studios like Monogram and Republic. The only other ones that I can think of are Tarzan going from MGM to RKO, Sherlock Holmes going from Fox to Universal, and The Dead End Kids, going from WB to Universal and eventually changing the name of the group to the East Side Kids and doing a long run at Monogram. There are at least 50 series that began and ended as B series. Masie, Blondie, Mike Shayne, Bulldog Drummond, Mr. Moto, Mr. Wong, Nancy Drew, Gas House Kids, Boston Blackie, Crime Doctor etc. etc. and a host of B western series including Gene Autrey, Roy Rogers and Hoppy. |
Hafen von Schlockenberg | 05 May 2016 8:39 p.m. PST |
Mr.Moto! I saw them on the tube in the 60s. I'd like to see them again,but the dvds are expensive, for some reason. "Last Warning" must have gotten into public domain somehow, I see it on a lot of cheap comps. I never read any explanation of how Monogram scored Boris Karlof--the films were the usual set-bound talkfests,as I recall. I've got a lobby card from Mr. Wong,Detective. |
The Shadow | 06 May 2016 8:00 a.m. PST |
Hafen I bought both of the Moto sets. They are very clear and professionally done. I had all of the series before I bought these and they were poor quality dupes, so I dumped them. I'm picky about quality and half of my enjoyment of any DVD is it's quality, so I didn't mind shelling out the bucks for the boxed set. Or I should say that I don't mind my *wife* shelling out the bucks, as I usually ask for the more expensive boxed sets for Christmas. :-) As for the quality of the films themselves, I thought that they were very entertaining, but unless you are a fan I would just wait until the eventual TCM run. Karloff was never an "A" list actor, but after Frankenstein he was a familiar name that could sell films. Frankenstein and Bride of Frankenstein were not feature films. While Universal was not a "poverty row" studio, it was not one of the "big five, so without that kind of money Universal produced a lot of B movies and "in between-ers". Meaning films that had a running time of about 1 hour and 15 minutes, as opposed to B's that had a running time of about 60 minutes and A's that ran between an hour and a half and two hours. Both Frankenstein and Bride would probably be considered "in betweeners" where two of them would show up on a double bill. So Karloff, working for Universal, did a *lot* of lesser quality films. He played lesser roles in some A's too, like Scarface and Unconquered, but did more B's than anything else. He always managed to urn in a good performance though, as in Charlie Chan at the Opera, but by the early 1940's he was more of a well know personality than a sought after actor, and he cashed in on that fame in flicks like "You'll Find Out". Luckily, he also got to do a few of Val Lewton's films at RKO, and that kept his familiarity going right up until the 1950's. |
The Shadow | 06 May 2016 8:28 a.m. PST |
Hafen WOW! I got pretty wordy there and forgot to answer your question. The reason Karloff was able to work at other studios, like Monogram, is because of a contract dispute with Universal. He was was getting to be a big name there after Frankenstein, so when in the middle of contract re-negotiations Universal tried to stiff him, and not give him a raise, much to their surprise…he walked! After making some films at other studios, Universal offered him another contract, with a raise, *and* the option to make films at other studios. So he started to churn them out, even at "poverty row" studios. After all, money is money. Another situation that kept his fame going was his part in the play "Arsenic and Old Lace" which ran for three and a half years! On top of that, he did a *lot* of radio work on shows like "lights Out", "Inner Sanctum, and "Suspense". He also capitalized on his familiar voice and persona by doing many guest spots on radio variety shows. Wheew! Wordy, but hopefully helpful. |
Hafen von Schlockenberg | 13 May 2016 7:19 p.m. PST |
Hi Shadow, I haven't been ignoring you,thanks for the response. I'll try to get back to the thread,but right now I'm dealing with some family issues that prevent me from taking part in extended discussion. |
jaxenro | 19 Jun 2016 12:14 p.m. PST |
OK WOW. Don't get the appeal of Harlow. Bergman should be milking cows. Maybe neither was Hedy Lamarr but really. Harlow's appeal, pure and simple, was raw sexuality. Look at these scenes YouTube link YouTube link |
jaxenro | 20 Jun 2016 1:33 p.m. PST |
The Big Sleep was rewritten and re shot to give the "Bogie and Bacall" duo more time together and more sexual innuendo that is only part of the reason it is so confabulated Of course no one mentioned one of the best actresses of that time Barbara Stanwyck who from Zeigfeld in the 20's to TV in the 60's was an icon of screen sexuality amd professionalism "when Sanders tired of it" And eventually he tired of life leaving behind a note: "Dear World, I am leaving because I am bored. I feel I have lived long enough. I am leaving you with your worries in this sweet cesspool. Good luck." |
capncarp | 22 Jun 2016 9:16 p.m. PST |
"Of course no one mentioned one of the best actresses of that time Barbara Stanwyck who from Zeigfeld in the 20's to TV in the 60's was an icon of screen sexuality amd professionalism" Ditto. Check her out opposite Gary Cooper in "Ball of Fire". |
Hafen von Schlockenberg | 22 Jun 2016 9:27 p.m. PST |
And of course, "Double Indemnity". |
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