"English Soldiers in the first Scottish War of Independence" Topic

I'm looking for some information on how the English armies of Edward I/II were armed and dressed in the late 13th/early 14th century. Would they have been primarily spearmen with axes, daggers and swords as side arms or would they have had weapons such as billhooks as seen later on in the hundred years war?

In terms of armour would pig-faced bascinets/hounskulls have been around in this period or again would they have developed later in the 14th century? From what I've researched it looks like great helms, sugar loafs, open bascinets and kettle helmets were the most common.

Any help would be really appreciated

If effigies are any guide, bascinets are coming into use by 1310ish. There is a reference in a pipe roll to bascinets with visors just post Bannockburn – these are probably a fairly simple flat faced visor as also found on the visored helms. Artwork can sometimes make it difficult to distinguish the two, especially if the neck is obscured making it difficult to see whether the mail is attached to the headwear. For maximum use, I'd stick to the great helms/sugar loafs, some with flat visors (which can be difficult to distinguish on figures if closed anyway)

IIRC, references to bills are fairly scarce even in the later periods when we know they were used. However, they might be included in what is translated as 'scythes, axes with long handles, knives and other rustic arms' required of those possessing less than 40 shillings of land in the 1253 assize. See link p432 for the various classes by land and chattels.

Agreed, no bills until the mid-fifteenth century at the earliest, I'd suggest. It was based on a rustic arm and specifically crafted for war, rather than a rustic arm itself. I'm not aware of any evidence to support it's use in the Hundred Years War, nevermind earlier. So yes, most foot would be armed with spears and assorted side arms.

On knights, I'd stick with great helms for this period. Visored bascinets started to creep in in the early fourteenth century, so Pig-faced visors et al are probably only beginning to appear in time for the Despenser War.

As an aside, the Scots would look pretty much the same

Some images from the period:
Detail of a soldier in scale armour, from an Apocalypse, England, c. 1250-1260

Jonathan killing Philistines and eating honey, Queen Mary Psalter, England, 1310-12
Scots & English soldiers on the Charter from Edward II to the city of Carlisle, 1316AD
A Brass of an English Knight in Trumpington Church, England
Knights and infantry in the Holkham Picture Bible, 1326-27AD

Druzhina
14th Century Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Edward II bought some bacinets c. 1308 (CDS 2 and doubtless in other collections as well) and I've seen (can't recall where) a marginalia drawing of a visored bacinet c. 1295/6. I'd suggest you go for a preponderance of bacinets and chapel-de-fers for MAA on both sides. Janner's point re; Scots is a good one – the only way to tell the difference between an English soldier and a Scottish one was to ask them.

I would disagree that the bill wasn't in use until the 15th century. You are interpreting the bill to be what they have expressly called a "bill" and are discounting some of the other descriptions throughout the 13th-14th centuries where they describe objects that are highly similar to a bill but not referenced as such.

I think the modern interpretation of English foot as spearmen is misleading and I would argue their formations would include many different arms to the point where, in concern to historical wargaming, they probably shouldn't be classified as spearmen (especially when you compare them to other units wargames classify as spearmen).

I am happy to reconsider my understanding of what a bill might have been. Would you mind sharing the descriptions you have in mind here?

I would also be grateful if you could provide some more detail as to what you mean in your second paragraph.

I'd be interested as well; especially in the points you raise in your first paragraph.

Yeah sure! I am at work right now. When I get home I will share what I have read.

What I can tell you right now though is in the image of Scots sieging Carlisle castle, there is a figure toward the bottom of the C who appears to be holding a spear, however if you look close you can clearly see that the blade is longer and somewhat curved in the front, and the back half has a pointed hook that bends slightly downward.

I suppose my second paragraph is more focused on a specific case, that being DBM Feudal English list where you can take levy as spear (I). This list goes all the way up to 1322 and I would argue that by the late 13th century those levy units should rather not be classified as Spear (I) but more probably Blade (I). I am relatively new to war gaming ancients so I can't speak for most other rules. (however as an aside I did just get ADLG in the mail recently and I will go back to see what they classify their English Levy as)!

Thanks for the great responses and interest in the topic!

The blade edge is certainly extended to one side in that figure in the illumination, but it's hard to judge if this is deliberate. The weapon thrust through the body of the axeman on the ladder also has an asymmetrical head and that does look like it's meant to be a spear.

These are tiny figures, so it's unsurprising if the spear heads are somewhat oversized and distorted. The crossbow bolt, for example, on the figure next to the knight is also somewhat larger than you'd expect.