"Laughably Incompetent ISIS Attack Repelled by Kurds" Topic

The scenario:

ISIS:
1 VBIED (pickup truck with improvised armor)
3 improvised APCs
maybe a squad's worth of the worst infantrymen I've ever seen. Interesting that they have either a German MG3 or Yugoslavian M53 (MG42 clone), and some sort of improvised rifle grenades.

Iraqi Kurds:
unknown forces, but they hold a fortified hilltop and clearly possess some AT weapons (probably RPGs).

I'm not sure when/where the VBIED detonated, but this rag-tag mechanized infantry force tried to drive straight at the Kurdish position, in daylight, across open ground. With predictable results. It's a VICE News vid, and it's not graphic: youtu.be/aM3ElTvF52I

Ya gotta watch these s and LOL for a bit….

Haven't watched it yet, but wonder what else they're up to while this little skirmish is going on.

DAESH doesn't strike me as being incompetent, so I'd be worried about what else they've got going on, or if this is just a probing attack to figure out what they're up against, and will come back much harder, and more effectively, soon.

Strange sights indeed. Maybe ISIS has lost too many of their competent fighters and these clowns are the only ones left.

Wouldn't make a very interesting game, eh?

Is that the three Stooges of ISIS?

By competent do you mean good at shooting unarmed civilians or already surrended low morale troops? Good riddance.

or if this is just a probing attack to figure out what they're up against, and will come back much harder, and more effectively

That's possible. They sent out the bench-warmers just to assess the level of resistance. Usually when Daesh is serious about an attack it is well-coordinated, and led by multiple, VERY large VBIEDs. Dump trucks full of explosives are like their equivalent of "Shock & Awe" Tomahawk missiles.

Idiots are present everywhere, so organization of religious fanatics has a higher concentration.
In other news…3 shots and 3 Turkish SPG destroyed – this is what is going to ISIS video footage…

link

Wow, that is the 2nd worst machinegunner I've ever seen, and few RPG users can top that dudes incompetence. Makes my AK-47 Republic conscript troops seem like elites!

These are exactly the same quality IS troops that first attacked the Iraqis. They used frontal attacks with suicide trucks against the entrenched Iraqis, who, better armed and trained, just melted away.

The tactics are still the same, but the Kurds are made of stronger stuff. They still take casualties, but they hold their own.

Their quality is obviously low (wargamers, this is what "conscript" & "green" means). They're being thrown away as suicide forces, so why waste good troops? When joining IS, they are first asked if they want to be suicide martyrs (the idiot test), and not much time is spent training these.

Notice their new American gear and brand new weapons…Never fired, only dropped once…

Clearly, they're reasonably competent, since they are/were managing to beat the beleaguered Syrian Army rather badly, until Russia got involved, as well as the Iraqi Army too, even with their US and Iranian backing, so they aren't a bunch of idiots.

Can't remember how many times the Iraqis, with the backing of both above have said they're taking back Mosul. At least 5 – 6 times by my count, and perhaps more. A US general has said they may be ready to try again, in December, LOL……..

competence against what? Like I said low morale forces. The Kurds with little are more than a match for them.Isis has a fearsome reputation but against who? Whenever they meet well trained and motivated opposition they don't perform.

Oh, there are competent troops, led by Iraqi officers, but those aren't the suicide "martyrs".

Talkin' about these sad sacks, and how they're used.

Read the book "Arabs at War" it is rather enlightening about how the "machismo" of the Arab culture gets in the way of achieving any level of military competence. Everything from command and control (No one takes responsibility or tells the truth to their superiors) to simple target practice (No one can be seen to fail in front of their comrades) is heavily degraded by the need to always save face.

Yea, I've read about that a little, in the Egyptian air war against the Israelis. Add in familial/tribal social promotion, etc., etc., and they're set up for failure.

Wonder if the Chinese will suffer from the same issues?

Time will tell, I suspect.

Yeah I noticed the nice new American gear..

I think most people would react that way under the circumstances unless they were very well trained. It did seem a little chaotic stepping on their own rockets and guns, a little house cleaning ahead of time might have done some good.

Agreed, Grossman. Without having rehearsed dozens or hundreds of times, you just sort of lock up when trying to operate under fire or other heavily stressful conditions. These guys never rehearsed or worked with their gear much, otherwise they may have realized a few things and reorganized equipment.

That's the big deal about SOP (standard operating procedure) and PCIs (pre-combat inspections). SOP makes sure that there is a place for everything and everything's in its place and that everyone knows them while PCI makes sure that SOP is followed. Really what's missing here are effective NCOs establishing SOP and following through with PCIs. My TC would have had a cow if this vehicle was in our platoon. Just way too much crap in the fighting compartment and camera boy/loader was spending too much time digging around for munitions. It really cut into the unit's effectiveness and its ability to lay effective fires for the assault.

Some serious individual and unit training is needed here too! The MG gunner was tossing brass all over the squad while the RPG gunner about roasted them with the backblast. This unit should have had some live fire exercises to figure out a drill on how to employ each of these weapon systems in an effective way. Ditto for the grenadier.

On a modeling note, did anyone catch what sort of vehicle they used? It's been so heavily modified that I have no clue what it was.

Tgunner's got it right.

But training is hard. Strutting around brandishing weapons and proclaiming your toughness is much easier.

Battle, however tends to show how you spent your time.

Spot on, Tgunner. What's the mantra? "Train like you fight, fight like you train". Boring, long hours of training that pay off when it matters. I was particularly amazed/amused by the RPG man and his loader; these two acted like they had never operated together (which was probably true).

Well the thing that really struck me was the way they tried to get away by rolling. Now in vids I have seen this in training segments. But the guy from the other truck was trying to leave the area that way also. The combat vet I showed this too said "I would be running fast across that flat field, oh that sucks, yep running."

I stated "even I with out your training could with any mil rifle WW I or later could shoot a man rolling away out to 300 yard on a flat field."

Vet "well so could the Pesmerga, they recovered the video"

Me "oh, oh I had not notice."

Longer version (16 minute) of the video;

YouTube link

Wow, just learned that troops quickly strip the distroyed units.

It's a heavily modified M1114 almost identical to this one:

The analysis of the video is on the Oryx blog:

link

Poor Hajaar, his daddy forever known as an incompetent…
("abu" means 'father of')

Another thing some may have mentioned. Many of the old hard core Jihadis caught a ride on a bus to "Paradise". Their replacements are not coming in the large numbers like before, but they lack real experience as well … However, never underestimate your enemy … But kill him regardless …

Wow, just learned that troops quickly strip the distroyed units.

Standard procedures, we were taught to check all enemy dead[once you check they are not booby trapped] and wounded for intel. Like maps, code books, OPORDs, messages, overlays, journals, diaries, etc., etc. … Like in this case, you never know what you may find.

Of course the in this situation the Kurds may possibly have been looking for ammo, etc., as well as intel ?

I know I'd be looking for functional firearms and ammunition if I was a Kurd. Never know when that AK is going to finally stop going "bang!" when you pull the trigger after 50 years of abuse.

Plus, every gun the Kurds grab is one fewer for DAESH.

It was reported today on CNN/FOX, that a USN SEAL was killed in a firefight in Irbil. After Daesh had penetrated the Kurd frontlines. The US responded with 23 airstrikes by F15s and drones.

I feel very sad about the US loss. But he was deployed to a war zone and doing his duty. May he RIP.

Maybe the US should have been allowed to do those 23 airstrikes and more before this happened ? Just saying I don't know all the facts ? And there will be more released as time goes on. Again … RIP Sailor …

And again, never underestimate your enemy. But as I like to add … Kill him regardless, in large numbers as often as possible.

I've previously commented that ISIS's best fighters probably learnt their craft the hard way over the last decade or more, and are neither to be sneezed at or an infinte resource. But, reagrdless whether the PBI in the video, were considered disposable for some reason, are ISIS's veteran jihadies necessarily any good, at all, at training recruits? Based on that performance it seems unlikely that many, if any, of their raw recruits are ever going to achieve 'veteran' or even 'experienced' status without some! Basically an advert for why on the job training is not appropriate for the military.

Indeed …

And again, never underestimate your enemy. But as I have added in the past … Kill him regardless, in large numbers, as often as possible.