"AVP Kickstarter picked up at Salute?" Topic

Did anyone actually get what they paid for at Salute?

After a very long queue i got a few bits but most of what i had paid for 3 years ago they had run out of. i.e. all the predators and alien warriors

Rather fed up with this lot, i think it is time to go to the small claims court…

Problem with the small Claims court is you haven't entered into a contract to buy a product. You have entered into an agreement to invest in product development for non guaranteed returns.

Yeah it's a kickstarter which means you invested rather than bought.

I see this a lot on the net now people getting burned by kickstarters wanting their stuff and while I have every sympathy, especially if they invested heavily, I'm not sure what they expect.

Every kickstarter I've backed has made it pretty clear it's a risk that might go up. Even the product is called a reward rather than a purchase and you pledge rather than buy.

Buyer beware as they say. The more I hear about kickstarters the happier I am that I have avoided them. They seem to be either borderline scams or a total lack of connection with the reality of business. Some seem to be like some sort of pyramid scheme paying for the last range with the current plan.

I understand that problems could happen and the product may never materialise.

But Prodos made the product they then sold it. It was not theirs to sell they entered into a contract under kickstarter rules that should be legally binding in the UK

While there's a lot of potential pitfalls when backing a kickstarter, as far as I can see if a reward is offered in return for money, that's enough to create a contract that should be enforceable in a UK court.
There's a risk involved in any contract; Amazon might go bust before they send you your order. Now that's very unlikely but its not different in principle, just degree, from a kickstarter reward. It can depend on what exactly you backed; a fiver to wish good luck, you can't pursue that, but get 2 boxes of X for Y pounds; that's pretty clearly a contract to me. Offer, acceptance, consideration and intent to create legal obligation are all arguably present.

There have been successful instances of non-delivering project creators being sued in the US as far as I know. The problems are more practical ones; is it worth the hassle for your 30 quid or so? Was it not delivered because the creator is practically broke now anyway ? And so on.

That is a shame.

Glad I didn't get in on it, for this very reason, though I'd dearly have loved to.

well the good news all the product is freely available retail you can buy it anywhere

dont need to be in the kickstarter :)

Sucks for those that backed it, and didn't get delivery though.

I suspect that might be frowned upon in Small Claims Court.

Reminds me a bit of the Ken "Whit" Whitman, resin spaceships non-delivery scandal, where he allegedly failed to deliver products to the backers (definitely didn't deliver the ones I ordered) who initially funded the project, AND, when they did eventually became available, sold them to various retailers, doubling his profits. Sadly, the initial backers lost out.

On the plus side of that story, apparently several attorney generals are looking into the matter, since he's allegedly scammed people out of $300,000 USD+ on various Kickstarter projects.

CptKremmen : that is why I do not back kickstarters. I'm patient …

Go for it -- it's not like you need a lawyer for scc.

As for KS, I'm fine with backing experienced companies like CMON and Stonemaier Games.

This reinforces my belief that mega-kickstarters are best avoided. The ones that let me down were massively over subscribed, whereas the small ones delivered.

CMON screwed us on the McVey game, did not give a single flying F.
Will never deal with them again.

Is anybody else still waiting for their Prodos AvP stuff from 3 or 4 years ago?

A friend of mine pledged for the lot and then some. Still not seen a single piece of product.

Late reply, but not small claims court. For the Hansfree KS project, insurance (?) lawyer Singh sued the creator in Justice Court:

"Singh: As far as the bankruptcy is concerned, my lawsuit was actually little more than a small claims lawsuit. If you file a real lawsuit in Arizona you file that in superior court, and I filed it in a court that is lower than that called the justice court and it's not actually small claims court. For legal reasons I didn't file it in small claims. It has to do with the fact that I wanted a declaration that we were not investors, we were buyers. You can't do that in small claims court, so I filed it in justice court."

link

If it's over $35 USD, I'll pretty much back companies with retail or KS experience, preferably both. Not gonna want to hear it, but Archon (same owners as Prodos) shipped their LOAD KS. No reviews comparing it against similar games yet.

If Prodos had gone bust, I would not complain. Hank risked his money, these things happen.
But they did not go bust. The figures Hank helped get produced are now available in the shops. Hank is out several hundred dollars and has received nothing from Prodos.

Has Prodos responded to their backers who have not recieved their rewards yet?
I bought some AVP at Gen Con this summer, I had no idea they were doing this.

I did a quick googling on this.
link
Quite a few people are waiting for all or substantial parts of their KS.

I hate it when I'm right like this.