"Do Wargames Teach History?" Topic

Do you feel that you have learned about history from the historical tabletop miniatures games you have played?

Probably more from the period research to set the game up.

Certainly, I get a real kick when a TMPer does a blog writeup up on a history class using miniatures to go through a historical battle.

I think if you can create some very accurate terrain with the rolling features of ridges/hills and other significant terrain effects, I think it can. Very accurate terrain can help impact your understanding of why certain decisions were made by the generals, or reinforce the impact the terrain had on the outcome of a battle (or your "new" battle). Combine this with walking tours of the same battlefield, and it can really contribute to your "learning" of history. So a big yes!

It does take some effort and practice to create terrain that can really impact learning, and there are always corners that have to be cut, but impactful terrain can be achieved in most situations.

No.

All games are subject to the prejudices and biases of the designer.
Does the Napoleonic era boil down to "+2 for being French"? All that teaches is that the designer has a large French army.

And let's not forget Ancient Army Lists designed to reward the armies of the list designers.

No, but wargames can foster an interest in history that can lead to reading books about history.

Wargames stimulate interest in learning more about history and geography.

As others have said previously; wargames in themselves do not teach history but they help to foster a desire to learn history.

In demonstrating the challenges faced by the commanders it can definitely be unstructive in understanding the outcomes of famous battles.

If the scenario is historical and the game master did his research, then yes. Wargames can teach you about history. The made up wargame minutiae aside, games can demonstrate, for instance, 'why' Longstreet could not flank the round tops at Gettysburg, for example or why it was a bad idea for the 11th corps to deploy so far forward for another.

Sometimes, but not so much as many of us would like to believe.

Most historical games focus more on the antiquarian details surrounding a tiny little bit of history, than the historical event represented by the game.

In my experience, most of the history is lost on the gamer, who tends to focus on very little snippets of history with most attention paid to details that are not the history itself. Those gamers who do study the history, are often focused such that very little of the history associated with a battle or war is within their scope or needs. Military history is a subset of a bigger history surrounding any event, and most of that serves no direct role in the presentation of the game.

The reality is that most historical games revolve around very little history and a lot of antiquarian detail. The game itself probably doesn't teach much history. But, the scope of the hobby can vary, and the pursuit of the hobby can include the learning of, and teaching of, much history depending on the participant. In my case, I've learned a lot of history that never is represented on the tabletop, and most of what is represented on the table is "historical" in nature, but not the history itself.

I thinks Winston's comment is biased, and just proves that he doesn't have a large French army.

Yes. And pornos teach sex…

nope

From the research aspect, yes. And from what I have picked up from Games Masters over the years, yes. But just playing a game itself, no.

The game itself may not but I have had many kids in school who game with me and others who have over the years gamed with me tell me it has peeked their interest in the period we were gaming and some have studied up on the history of the period. Some were studying the period in their history class which caused them to become more interested in their class studies. I even have had some teachers who game with me tell me it has helped them put themselves into the period more and helped them to understand the things the soldiers had to put up with in battle under pressure. Again the game itself may or may not teach history but it is what it inspires in some people that produces and interest in history.

Absolutely. Especially from the standpoint of decision making. If the game accurately represents the level of control and information possessed by the leaders, it will give a good insight not the choices and decisions faced by the leaders.

That's a mighty big "IF".

All these "decisions" get in the way of beer drinking.
And in that I am simulating quite a few historical generals.

Not by is osmosis

But certainly an inspiration at times

It is a big if. A scenario that's just thrown together or rules that don't reflect the period will teach you to roll the right dice. But rules with a decent period feel and a well designed scenario can teach you a lot about a battle. The Fencibles have played 4 battles in our Franco Prussian campaign so far and we feel like our knowledge of this conflict has been enhanced.

I'm with Brigadier General that it's the supporting research that I've leaned most from. That said, I favor rules that reward historical tactics.

No.

Miniatures and terrain can be used to teach history but it has to be a concerted effort

Whitfoto: Wait,what? You mean they don't? Hmm…well,that explains a lot.

What are you going to tell us next,that action movies don't teach how to handle firearms?

"I thinks Winston's comment is biased, and just proves that he doesn't have a large French army."

Irish I bet Winston's French Army is above average size.

And Wargaming is a tool also a lot of gamers are tools also. And these tools can be used to teach History or they can be used to distort History, The Pro German Biased in some WW2 rules show this.

So play learn and above all be the best tool you can be.

The game itself will not teach you much about history. I took a Rapid Fire game to a grade 12 history class.
During the game they realized that moving infantry in the open was pretty deadly, especially against artillery and MG42's.

All the rest I had to explain.
It makes them want to research history.

It really depends upon the format and how it is presented. But yes they can if done right.

You don't need a large French Army, as they get +2.

You need an even smaller British one though, as they get +3.

Phil Sabin makes a very cogent argument as to how wargames can be used to explore history in 'Lost Battles', but in common with the other comments above, I find it is the scenario/army research which is the history bit.

Pushing the toys around and throwing dice, is where we try and interpret it, not discover it (even if, in my head, I am Alexander or Napoleon).

To use wargames as a research tool you need to run multiple simulations with different variables – the sort of thing Biddle did in his analysis of 73 Easting using the JANUS simulator.

Most of the history I haved learned is from researching wargaming projects… my California public education taught me almost norhing, and even less that is true. Two years of college history just glossed over the same material from different points of view.

Yes. I've played in and observed several games that have served to give the players and b servers a deeper insight into the historical aspects of particular actions.

Do you feel that you have learned about history from the historical tabletop miniatures games you have played?

It depends on the quality of the content. Some yes, some no, or yes in the negative sense. It just wasn't that way.

It's the same with a book, movie, a historical recreation or a historical painting.

It depends on the quality of the content.

To use wargames as a research tool you need to run multiple simulations with different variables.

That is also a method for testing the historical quality of the wargame dynamics in play.

Semi. Better than most entertainment vehicles but no substitute for actual reading.

To use wargames as a research tool you need to run multiple simulations with different variables.

That is also a method for testing the historical quality of the wargame dynamics in play.

Why would anybody want to do that???

No

Not by wargaming itself but from many of the post and topics on my areas of interest.

I think that it can help tactile learners grasp what has been discussed or read. I can lend a frame of reference or common ground to work from. Alone, no, but with other aspects yes.

Yes … Unquestionably.

Obviously it depends on the game and the intent but games are some of the best tools for learning and opening up almost any subject and wargames in particular are key tools in unlocking history.

Phil

Doesn't it rest upon the rules being used? To across the board condemn the concept of wargames not teaching any history is painting with a rather broad brush. There are rules out there that focus upon things other than focus upon the technical aspects of warfare. Time , distance, logistical ability to get the army to where it needs to be, sustain it and monetary considerations are just a few areas most rules don't address very well if at all.

Most wargames are just that- games. Point values to balance out game play (war has never been a fair fight!) is just the first example that comes to mind. That said, perhaps a better question is the age old one, "Do you prefer to play games or play simulations that actually allow you to experience the effects of your decisions, just like the real personnal you are role playing?

Despite what many may want you to believe, there are times when both forms will satisfy one's needs in our hobby. Both have merits and demerits, but remember, this is YOUR hobby and like any other hobby, the enjoyment you find has a relationship to the time you put into it.

I am amazed at what I have learned of history by researching initially how to paint my miniatures. I Allways got cought up and started to read more and more on whatever period I was wanting to paint my figures. I have learned more that way on history than I ever did in school. Allthough I Always followed those lessons keenly.

While war games do not teach history. They may inspire folks to learn more about history. That should count for something.

You can learn from research for a project, but not from the game itself.

I agree with Saber6. I think historical games provide a frame of reference to the period they are recreating with both visual and tactile reinforcement. It is sort of like a mnemonic in that way.

There are two different questions here.

First, anyone can and should learn a lot about a historical period if they are going through the process of collecting accurate armies and creating representative games. Much the same might be said of people who create museum displays, for instance.

As to whether you can learn from *playing* a game, the answer is the same as with all potential learning experiences – it depends! The game could easily provide a vivid, tactile tool to learn about a particular battle, about parts of a war, about certain (albeit somewhat limited) parts of different cultures, and even technology, architecture, and so on. This will only happen if you establish good communication and there is mutual interest in doing so – just as in any classroom. It certainly doesn't *have* to – but it certainly can.

Cheers,

Christopher

No – I've not learned anything from the forces in any battle, their relative strengths, their perspective speeds, the number of casualties they can cause, the terrain they fought over, etc… from wargames.

There's no rule that says you have to learn anything from a wargame.

The fact that you can ought to be obvious to anyone.

Whether you do is clearly down to the game, the intent, and down to the capacities of the people playing it.

Clearly, there are plenty of people who never learn anything much, anyway, however rich the potential environment. Whatever the subject .

Phil

I teach as an adjunct history professor and I wargame. I'm not sure how often they interesct.

I don't think it's ever been the game that has been educational so much as the friends I've played them with.

Not so much from the games themselves as from the research they inspire. Oh, do they inspire me to research…