"american cross belts" Topic

Got my first knuckleduster 1812 miniatures at cold war. Althought i have a ton of research books on order through inter library loan i have too many questions!

Started painting up Scott's brigade for Chippewa. My question is should the leather cross belts (cartridge box and bayonet belt) be black or white?

Also since officers bought their uniforms should I paint them in blue (regulation) coats? Are musicians in reversed colors?

Lastly who's flags would you recommend? My old standby The Flag Dude has let me down for the last time. Moving on but to who?

Scott's Brigade was uniformed in grey jackets, white pants.
Headgear the older stovepipe type or the newer belgic looking one. Knowing how supply was so poor and production worse.

Musicians….reversed. red coat, blue facings for 1814.

belts were suppose to be black in 1814. I am sure some white ones were still being used.

Officers…I have my jr company grade in the same undress as the men. Field grade and color guard in the standard blue. Some in the 1810 and some not.

Remember, during the war of 1812, the US Army on paper grew to around 40 regiments. You had them in various colors, one of Scott's regiments was not in blue but brown with green facings prior to the shipment of gray uniforms.

From 1810 to 1815, I think the uniform changes about 5 times due to raw material availability. The Divisions in the South were in all white during the summer and blue in winter. Want to guess how many soldiers where in white at New Orleans….more than you would expect.

I was at Fort Conde in Mobile this weekend. They had a 1813 pattern shako on display. No plumb, but the chords were in the back, the ones for the front were missing. My uniform books were referenced. I have yet to find an official example.

I am also looking for flags. I lost the link, but a company in the UK had a listing for US flags for the period. One of the US suppliers on TMP has a list, but for the life of me I can not remember who it is.

I believe Knuckleduster Miniatures has British and U.S. flags in 28mm.

Thanks!
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White cross-belts;

Grey roundabout jackets (short jacket) for the men and Sergeants;

Officers wore the 1813/14 blue tunic with white trousers and tombstone shako (as did the men);

Musicians are indeed in reversed colors ie red tunic with blue facings and straps. However, some of my sources state that the musicians wore the grey "round abouts" as well in Scott's brigade.

American and British Flags can be purchased through 'Flags of War'. These same flags can be bought from Knuckleduster as well. I do prefer Flag Dude flags but he is frequently difficult to communicate with. GMB Designs make a good selection of British flags.

There is a Canadian who produces 28mm flags for all American and British units that operated during the War of 1812 battles. However, I can't seem to find the link so far. If I do I will post it here.

Here is a link to my War of 1812 blog, which has a copy of a print portraying Scott's brigade at Chippewa…a good source for uniform info.

link

I was also wondering how to paint Scott's Brigade cross-belts and found both Don Troiani and the Olivier Millet uniform site show black:

link

The reasoning being that recently raised regiments, as those of Scott's Brigade, would get the new regulation black belts whilst older units retained the white. However the painting by H. Charles McBarron of the Scotts's Brigade at Chippewa that IronDuke references shows white.

Osprey 345 The United States Army 1812-1815 has this to say:
"Shortages of buff leather…led to the resumption of black leather belting as a wartime expedient and by-and-large most wartime-raised units (especially infantry) were furnished with black crossbelts. The seven "old" infantry regiments, as well as most of the artillery and a few other select units had buff belting pipeclayed white"

None of these are primary, contemporary sources so it's difficult to say. Perhaps the different regiments of the Brigade had different crossbelts? That comes on to another confusing thing I encountered – different sources name different regiments making up the Brigade:

Don Troiani's Soldiers in America, 1754-1865 and Osprey MAA 345:
9th, 11th, and 25th US Infantry

Olivier Millet's site
9th, 11th, 22nd and 23rd US Infantry

Osprey Campaign 209 Niagara 1814:
9th, 11th, 21st and 25th US infantry

The Battle of Chippewa wiki
link

9th, 11th, 22nd and 25th US Infantry

I'm guessing that means it's composition changed over time, in particular between Chippewa and Lundy's Lane but would all have worn the grey round-jacket at this time?

Scott reported in April of 1814 that his brigade was "was nearly destitute of clothing". On June 27th in Buffalo, Scott received "2,000 suits of infantry clothing…simple round-about(termed "jackets with sleeves") of corse gray kersey and overalls of bleached linen." They also received the new "tombstone"shako.

Scott was expecting the new blue uniform, however, Wilkinson (they hated each other) intercepted these uniforms and had them shipped to his army. Nonetheless, Scott had to make do what what he received and ordered the men of his brigade to immediately wear the gray round-about…before Chippewa.

This info is from Military Uniforms in America: Vol II Years of Growth, 1796-1851, The Company of Military Historians; p 32. The plate on the adjacent page shows pioneers (gray jacket) of the 25th Regiment plus an officer (blue jacket) with a white belt for the officer) and white cross belts and belts for the three pioneers.

On the previous page the plate of infantry (blue) uniforms for the period 1814-15, also shows white cross belts. So it is safe to determine that all of Scott's men were clad in gray and most if not all wore white cross belts before they left Buffalo for the battles of Chippewa and Lundy's Lane.

See also; A Most War Like Appearance: Uniforms, Flags and Equipment of the United States in the War of 1812, by Rene Chartrand; pgs. 52-53 for corroboration. Lastly both of these excellent books use primary sources for references.

Of note on pg 155, Chartrand states that the intent was to have all infantry using white cross-belts throughout the war. However, there was an initial shortage of 'buffed leather' or white leather so, some 25,000 black cross-belts were procured in February 1812. These black cross-belts were initially issued to the 8th through 25th infantry regiments. So, perhaps some of the men of these regiments may have possibly kept these black cross-belts until 1814. All to say that it is not categorically wrong to portray American infantry with black cross-belts.

It is my understanding that the roundabout jackets did not have tails like a coatee, even thought the West Point dress coatee which was modeled after it does.

I highly recommend the book – "Uniforms and Equipment of the United Sates Forces in the War of 1812" by Rene Chartrand. I have found it a very thorough reference in my library of books on the subject.

Terry

The idea that the West Point cadets' gray uniform was inspired by Winfield Scott's brigade clad in gray during the 1814 Niagara campaign is a myth, though one of very long standing. "Military Uniforms in North America, Vol. II," (cited by Iron Duke above} makes clear that gray uniforms were already in use at West Point before the Battle of Chippewa occurred.