Weasel | 29 Mar 2016 3:07 p.m. PST |
If it's a choice, do you prefer a small number of units on the tabletop, but with more stands per unit (say 6+) or a larger number of units with less stands (3-4)? |
Mick the Metalsmith | 29 Mar 2016 3:17 p.m. PST |
larger number of units with less stands. My ratio is usually 120:1 so battalions are usually 4 small stands of a total of 6 figs. Works great in my gaming space with my 15mm figs. If I was starting over, I would probably use 6mm figs but still only use 6 figs per battalion. |
rmaker | 29 Mar 2016 4:26 p.m. PST |
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Weasel | 29 Mar 2016 4:30 p.m. PST |
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Fredloan | 29 Mar 2016 4:58 p.m. PST |
I have 16 figure bns in 15/18mm and I like that size in order to put a large number of units on the table. I like mid to large size battles |
1968billsfan | 29 Mar 2016 5:12 p.m. PST |
big battalions so that a battalion in line starts to look like a battalion in line. (or at least 3 battalions in line do) |
Extra Crispy | 29 Mar 2016 5:17 p.m. PST |
If FORCED to choose more units. But it really depends on the game. One unit with lots of options is more fun than three corps without. |
TKindred | 29 Mar 2016 5:38 p.m. PST |
I prefer one base = 1 unit games. Having said that, I like 28mm games with units of at least24 and preferably 36 minis each. I like seeing large units, even if it means you are forced to play 2-3 brigades per side. I also like seeing batteries with 2-4 guns each. Cavalry units of 24 minis to 36 minis too. |
leidang | 29 Mar 2016 5:48 p.m. PST |
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18CTEXAN | 29 Mar 2016 6:13 p.m. PST |
I game 1 figure equals 10 men and have 1805-07 French, Russians and Austrians. It means French at (full strength) have 108 figure battalions and 48 to 64 man cavalry regts. Austrians also have 108 figure battalions and 96 figure cavalry regts. Russians 72 figure battalions and 60 to 120 figure cavalry regts. Usual game has 18 to 24 infantry battalions and 4 to 8 cavalry regts. on a side. Our usual table is 9 to 18 feet long and 5 feet wide. For bigger battles we rent out hotel space. So we have large units and more units. Battles are also very bloody! |
Mick the Metalsmith | 29 Mar 2016 6:18 p.m. PST |
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vtsaogames | 29 Mar 2016 6:42 p.m. PST |
Usually lots of small units. Every now and then, a few really big units. |
TMPWargamerabbit | 29 Mar 2016 6:43 p.m. PST |
Mick the Metalsmith… sounds like your games are similar to ours… 90-100/1 ratio so typical infantry battalion is 5-9 miniatures. link Our group prefers more 25/28mm units… historical units present on a historical battlefield and painted as such at one to one unit ratio. Tend to avoid the big battalion representing brigades or divisions on the tabletop scenarios or games (thinking BP as I type). Mid sized 50k per side battles are no problem for us…. even the larger one like Wagram can be played with historical period painted units…. landwehr is and looks like landwehr, grenadiers, line… and the mixture of cavalry types too. Easy to done when you are not locked into the painting of big battalion formations. For divisional or smaller gaming… then the big battalions have their glory on the tabletop and I concur.. love to see them in tabletop action. But Wagram with 300k on the battlefiled… hundreds of battalions, artillery batteries, train, headquarters, and cavalry regiments, I yet to see a BP game that scale with actual one to one unit representation and posted on the TMP or internet. Then there is Texas size it seems…… ;-)) |
mwindsorfw | 29 Mar 2016 6:50 p.m. PST |
I like big batts and I cannot lie. |
Timotheous | 29 Mar 2016 6:52 p.m. PST |
After taking two years to paint 10 battalions of 32 figures each, plus 15 gun stands and 2 18-man cavalry units for Lasalle, I went the other way for Drums and Shakos Large Battles by painting more battalions, but only 12 figs each. Artillery are 2 guns plus crew, not five, and cavalry are only four figures. Makes a game more about maneuver. |
Bill N | 29 Mar 2016 8:37 p.m. PST |
Yes. I want my units to bear some relationship to the size of the actual unit. Since ACW regimental strength could vary from under 200 to up to 1,000, there is the potential that I am going to have both small and large units. |
basileus66 | 29 Mar 2016 9:32 p.m. PST |
Medium sized units for small battles. Although it is not a matter of preference but of necessity. I have not the available space, nor the time!, for playing big games. |
Navy Fower Wun Seven | 29 Mar 2016 11:17 p.m. PST |
I have definitely found that fewer, larger units looks more impressive on the table, and can also present real problems of time and space!
To each his own, but for me, in 28mm, an infantry battalion of 36 and a Cavalry Regiment of 18 are the absolute minimum, it the units aren't to look like a Corporal's Guard escorting the Colours!
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C M DODSON | 29 Mar 2016 11:17 p.m. PST |
I feel that the 'look' of the thing is important at in the Napoleonic era especially. For my Ligny re fight I use infantry units of fifty men and cavalry of twenty five. For the French as an example two units equals a brigade and four makes a Division, subject to historical variations. Artillery is pro rata at two pieces per battery plus limbers and cassions, one battery per Division and one Corps battery as well. Senior officers, Adc's etc complete the mix. I feel the visual result helps capture the spirit of the age. Chris |
ChrisBBB2 | 29 Mar 2016 11:48 p.m. PST |
The key is how many units does a player get to use. Too many units and you get bogged down and the game takes too long. Too few and you don't have enough interesting choices to make. The magic number is around 8-12 units. Then each unit should have few stands, for ease of movement and so the units don't cram the table so much there is no room to manoeuvre. But each stand should have enough figures that a battle looks like a battle, not a skirmish. Chris Bloody Big BATTLES! link bloodybigbattles.blogspot.fr |
Oh Bugger | 30 Mar 2016 2:05 a.m. PST |
Four stands per unit for me. I find that works well for gaming purposes and makes painting more enjoyable as 8, 12 or 16 figures suits my attention span. |
Martin Rapier | 30 Mar 2016 2:58 a.m. PST |
Four stands per unit is plenty for most things, and two or even one is quite sufficient. I prefer to model my battles two down, so generally in this era your formations are Corps and units are divisions. Four stands is plenty to show the picture of a division. |
Blutarski | 30 Mar 2016 4:49 a.m. PST |
Fred Vietmeyer is looking down upon us with a big smile on his face. B |
Marc at work | 30 Mar 2016 5:45 a.m. PST |
1:20 scale, Peter Gilder style for me. As someone said above, too small and it is a few mates taking the flag out for a walk – worse with British twin flag units. 8 figures, and two flags just does not work for me. We play Black Powder, and I aim for two to three brigades each. So four battalions to a "brigade" and people end up with 8-12 units to play with. Seems to work ok. |
Zargon | 30 Mar 2016 5:51 a.m. PST |
Its all about the rules, I play Sharps Practice 'so called large skirmish" and that's max 200 figures on a standard table in 28 mm and then L'Aigle Napoleonic Rules for brigade to corps sized games in 15 mm with figures varying depending on the size of the brigade from as little as 9 to as many as 40 figures per brigade. Both give me the 'feel' I need to play Naps at the level I enjoy, one is basically Hollywood heroes and bravery the other gives strategy and tactical of the large games. |
marshalGreg | 30 Mar 2016 6:33 a.m. PST |
Tactical level game – 24 to 48 fig battalions and 9 to 18 cavalry squadrons or battle groups (multi squadron)units. A line looks like a line and not, as already mentioned, a color guard or skirmish line. But must have maneuver space so the units are not should to shoulder- even if allowed by rules. So that dictates the number that will be played. Part of reason why not collecting in 25/28mm, in addition to cost (in figs/time painting). Grandtactical- 10 to 18 fig stands/sabots with brigade/Division level units of several of these stands/sabots. So my collection/mounting scheme allows 3 levels of cav unit/battalion size. For example at tactical I can go 36 or 18 then make into 9, 12 or 15 for grandtactical with a French unit collected to 36. Volt. co is 3 stands of 1x1, center co 4 stands of 4x2 and grenadier co 2 stands of 2x1 Good luck in your decision! I to have had this struggle and just now getting to a play I am most happy with for the my collection. MG |
ubercommando | 30 Mar 2016 7:47 a.m. PST |
I go for 16 figure battalions on 4 stands of 4 figures in 15mm. 24 figures for large battalions. I find that number just fine and it enables me to field reasonable sized divisional (and Corps if I team up with friends) games. |
Royal Marine | 30 Mar 2016 8:32 a.m. PST |
Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots …. link |
steamingdave47 | 30 Mar 2016 10:43 a.m. PST |
My first wargames were with Charge rules so an infantry regiment was about 60 figures. For that sort of 18th century linear game, I think that is the number to aim for. Playing WW2 however, units are usually 1:1 sections of perhaps 10 figures and usually no more than 6 sections or so on the table for each side. |
14Bore | 30 Mar 2016 12:16 p.m. PST |
As per Empire 1=60 large numbers of units with smaller number of figures. |
Mick the Metalsmith | 30 Mar 2016 12:35 p.m. PST |
I hear the accolades of many stand battalions for how they look but my real issue is the amount of time and friction they apply to the game. It seems to me most gaming decisions are not about maneuver, there is no room on the table, and you have to spend a lot more game time just moving stands and possibly counting them. I don't care for that trade-off in my games. I have only a four x eight table at 100 yds. to the inch but maneuvers matter most in my games. |
M C MonkeyDew | 30 Mar 2016 1:06 p.m. PST |
The unit size is based on the engagement, number of figures available, and space in which to play it. |
janner | 30 Mar 2016 1:15 p.m. PST |
1:20 scale, Peter Gilder style for me. Same here, corps level gaming with Black Powder |
Timmo uk | 30 Mar 2016 2:55 p.m. PST |
More smaller units with lots of space. Most of the games I see with big or really big units end up being nothing more than advancing to contact, some dice rolling to see who 'wins' and that's about it. It might look great but it's not very interesting to play. |
Gonsalvo | 30 Mar 2016 7:00 p.m. PST |
I definitely prefer small(er)units (28mm Napoleonic); For decades and with many rules have used 18 figures for most infantry, 8 for most cavalry, and 6-8 crew with 2 guns for Artillery. I have a strong collector bent, and this allows me to have a very wide variety of units (and nations). |
TMPWargamerabbit | 31 Mar 2016 8:58 a.m. PST |
Another wargamer schism? Big vs. small units. This rabbit prefers both scales of unit size….but tends to the small unit camp with his collections. Big photogenic miniature laden blocks for the small scale actions and smaller footprint units for the grand battle scenarios…. those at one unit for each actual unit (battalion, battery, or cavalry regiment present on the historical battlefield… i.e. no representative unit grouping into one unit. Rough count to this time marker on TMP… Big units faction seem to have 16 in favor Smaller group has 11 in favor Fence sitters total 4 (or no direct option presented) |
1968billsfan | 31 Mar 2016 12:08 p.m. PST |
Anything less than 16 figures to represent a battalion is not Napoleon wargaming. For rules, you at least have to guess, "CLS?" when you see a Napoleonic wargame in progress. |
pbishop12 | 31 Mar 2016 12:51 p.m. PST |
Big. 36 figure French infantry. 16 – 24 cavalry. 1 model gun = 2 real guns. |
donlowry | 31 Mar 2016 4:12 p.m. PST |
more units, fewer stands per (1-5). |
Mick the Metalsmith | 01 Apr 2016 11:47 a.m. PST |
I think the real schism is over table size vs footprint of units involved. Timmo has it right imho Or form vs. function. One can determine CLS with as few as 4 figs but a minimum of 6 is better. But I guess that's not Napoleonic gaming according to THE authorities. |
Marc the plastics fan | 01 Apr 2016 1:07 p.m. PST |
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Maxshadow | 01 Apr 2016 1:58 p.m. PST |
I run my French Napoleonics in 6 bases of 4 =24 and my ACW Regiments in 6 bases of 3 = 18. Given a do over I'd use 18 for both. |
donlowry | 01 Apr 2016 2:56 p.m. PST |
6 bases for French Napoleonics makes sense, at least for the latter part of the era, as French battalions had 6 companies. (Also this would allow you to form ad hoc grenadier and voltigeur battalions, if you want to.) But ACW regiments had 10 (smaller) companies, so 5 stands would make more sense than 6. |
TKindred | 01 Apr 2016 4:27 p.m. PST |
I see the big problem with this discussion, is that the OP mixed the ACW and Napoleonic boards together. There is simply too much of a difference between both the concepts, the philosophies, and the sizes of the armies involved, as well as political differences and loyalties. |
John Thomas8 | 02 Apr 2016 3:28 a.m. PST |
I play La Fue Sacre, so 4 base battalions are standard for my 25s and allows for many units, not so many figures….which fits my budget and painting skills just fine. :-) ACW, I use They Couldn't Hit An Elephant, so regiments are 1 base=100 troops and the regiment sizes I use are historical for the battle being fought. Although 1 base regiments are kinda goofy. :-) |
uglyfatbloke | 08 Apr 2016 9:56 a.m. PST |
We use 6 inch x 2 inch bases each carrying anything from about a dozen to two dozen figures. No problem with having over 100 units per side except dragging all the toys off to a hall so we can make a 30-foot table. |
forwardmarchstudios | 08 Apr 2016 11:14 a.m. PST |
For 3mm I greatly prefer smaller individual units but greater numbers. I feel that when done right you can get a real feel for what combat in the period looked like. 1809in3mm.blogspot.com I need to do some more updates on my blog, been busy though! Hopefully soon. |
Sparta | 08 Apr 2016 12:36 p.m. PST |
Smaller scale with big untis as Forwardmarch. I like 1:20 in 6 mm. We usually handle about a corps or 30-40 units per player |
forwardmarchstudios | 08 Apr 2016 1:41 p.m. PST |
30-40 units per side is the way to go! What rules do you use if you don't mind my asking? |
Sparta | 10 Apr 2016 12:51 p.m. PST |
We use or own rules called Champ d´honneur. They are free to anyone interested, but not for the casual gamer, they have a large focus on command. They give a game that visually simulate what you present on you block with your 3mm. We use 3-4 stand for a batallion – almost similar to you. |