"Late Crusades Troops Questions" Topic
9 Posts
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Mako11 | 22 Mar 2016 11:21 p.m. PST |
I'm interested in putting together a later Crusader Army for DBA, for about 1250 – 1275, or so. In the listings, there are requirements for the following troop types, in addition to all the other types of troops: Spear Bow My questions are, during this later period, would these guys be armored in mail, or generally unarmored? I suppose in real life, depending upon the army and its size, perhaps a mix of both, but I'd like to know which might be more predominant in terms of types and likelihood. The listings also provide for crossbows and bows. Presumably, the latter are just regular longbow, or shorter bowed troops, but I'm wondering if perhaps in the 1x3 BW unit, if they could also just be a crossbow unit as well, instead of being armed with a traditional style bow? The crossbows are in units of 4 per stand, and I think there are two of them, e.g. 2x4 CB. Finally, as far as troops type by nationality go, during this period, would Crusaders from different areas mix together in a unit, or would they generally be in separate armies, e.g. Franks, Italians, Germans/Swabians, Flemish, Hungarians, etc., etc.? Any info on the above will be greatly appreciated. |
GurKhan | 23 Mar 2016 1:59 a.m. PST |
Mostly armoured, sometimes quite heavily. See link The bow-armed Bw may be intended to represent local Syrian Christian troops with composite bows – link |
Mako11 | 23 Mar 2016 2:42 a.m. PST |
Thank you for the link and info. I appreciate it. Also, can both Feudal and Frankish troops from different ranges be used together? They appear to have very similar dress, armor, weapons, and helmets. I'm primarily interested in the 1250 – 1280 period range currently, but may also want to expand back to the First Crusade, and to the early 1300s as well. Love those sugarloaf helms for the latter period. |
GurKhan | 23 Mar 2016 8:44 a.m. PST |
You can certainly use figures from "Feudal Europe" ranges in Outremer; and (usually) vice versa, though things like the oval shields shown in the first link above and in link are much more characteristic of the East than of Europe, seemingly. The Franks of the Crusader states are after all just Europeans who've gone East and largely kept their military styles, with a few local adaptations – occasional use of lamellar, occasional scarves round the helmets, more use of light cotton and silk (which won't show up much differently in miniature, though there might be more decorated Oriental fabrics). |
Swampster | 23 Mar 2016 11:17 a.m. PST |
One point for the 1250-80 period is that by then most of the action is either raids or sieges rather then decent size battles. This might make a difference if you fancy doing an actual battle and have the troops look the part. Also by then the troops being used were mostly raised locally so the issue of different nationalities doesn't arise much. The main exception is Price Edward's crusade – his English probably stayed together. There are St Louis's crusades to Egypt and Tunis but in DBx these are provided by the Feudal French list. |
goragrad | 23 Mar 2016 2:17 p.m. PST |
As to using crossbowmen for the BW units, technically in DBA CB have a quick kill on KN in close combat. As long as you make sure to treat them as the BW they are specified to be on the list that wouldn't be a problem. |
Great War Ace | 24 Mar 2016 7:01 a.m. PST |
Contingents stuck together throughout this era. So a crusader coming from someplace in Europe arriving in the Levant would remain a cohesive "unit". Later armies of the crusader states had fewer and more rare opportunities to campaign out in the open. And when they did it almost always ended badly. Then on top of their diminishing returns, they got involved in civil strife over succession issues, etc. Misery and stupidity know few bounds. My understanding is that "sergeants" were mailed crossbowmen and spearmen. Mounted "sergeants" were a separate category included with "horsemen". The term "knights" isn't always clearly separated from the ignoble horsemen…. |
Mako11 | 25 Mar 2016 2:48 a.m. PST |
Thanks for all the replies and info. I really appreciate it. Yes, as I can see from my mini range, the mounted sergeants look virtually the same as the mounted knights, with the exception that the former have just regular horses with no cloth barding for them. Otherwise, they are identical, so I may mix the men a bit for a little more variety in my force. |
The Last Conformist | 25 Mar 2016 11:57 p.m. PST |
The 3Bw are supposed to be locals (e.g. Maronites), so they should presumably wear Middle Eastern dress (through I suppose they to some extent must've been influenced by Frankish styles) and crossbows probably wouldn't be appropriate. |
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