"How film depict Ancient and medieval people" Topic

Popular film (&TV) seem to have several conventions to let you know the actors are playing people from the Distant Past.

One is a dirty face. Evidently no-one washed their face back then.

Another is they tend to eat with their mouths open, not having the benefit of modern etiquette. This also gives the actor a chance to show off their decayed & stained choppers (dental hygiene in the past? don't make me laugh…..)

I'm sure there are others you've noticed.

The lack of animal dung in the streets. Mind you, this goes for Westerns too.

Romans always had a British accent.

Flaming torches abound, even in broad daylight….

Everyone looks so tall and well-fed.

They all have good teeth and lots of them.

Not just Westerns but any city before the invention of the automobile. It was pretty hazardous crossing the streets of New York in the 1880s.

A Medieval historian was once asked what would most shock a modern in going back to the Middle Ages. "Without a doubt," he said, "it would be the overwhelming piety of everyday people." It's an interesting answer. Except for the stage inquisitor types (generally Dominicans) who seem to appear with clockwork regularity in nearly every film about those times, Hollywood has never paid this element of daily life enough attention. The same could be said of re-enactors.

The appeal to stilted, archaic speech patterns. Anachronism abounds.

Peasants always look loutish.

The "bad guy" is usually named Guy.

Trick shooting (defying the laws of physics) is stock in trade for the hero(s).

For the past generation or so, of films, the hero(s) fight "Eastern style". I believe that Conan the Barbarian was the first to make use of Kendo style sword technique instead of European fencing technique. ("Troy" was actually a refreshing departure from this slavish worship of Eastern marital arts.)

Ditto the unwashed. "Arn the Knight Templar" was especially blatant in this respect. Arn's face and hands were usually downright disgusting….

Film appearance is based on when movies are made. In 'The 300 Spartans' they are all clean and shaven. Now they are long haired and dirty.
'Spartacus' with Kirk Douglas is the same.
Actors liked for their features to be seen.

Yes, another vote for overplaying filth. They did the best they could.

In re-reading my post above, I want to make it clear the last sentence wasn't meant as a dig against re-enactors. Piety, after all, is a difficult thing to re-enact. Bawdiness and general buffoonery are much easier to portray(and likely more fun as well), but the lack of the religious element still remains a major gap in every film/re-enactment I have seen.

Check out "Hard to be a God". Takes the overplaying the filth aspect to a crazy degree.

So it seems Hollywood makes it too dirty AND too clean. There's no pleasing some people :)

BTW,to state the obvious, trick shooting isn't limited to ancient and Medieval movies!

ISTR an anecdote when Aurthur was being filmed some time ago. Anglecyyn (re-enactment group) volunteered to act as extras in the film, but were declined by the director. Their authentic Anglo-saxon era costumes were not "authentic" enough… :)

Damon.

Garand, the same comment was apparently directed at the Sealed Knot when they offered their services for the filming of Cromwell. It was rumoured that the director thought that it would cost an arm and a leg for all those extras but most of the SK would have done it simply for the experience.

Back on topic:
Outlandish accents in cinema. Two classics -the Irish/Macedonian Alexander and the Australian/Scottish William Wallace.

The wearing of cloaks in combat. From what I have read these were more of a liability than an asset.

The world and his brother wears a quiver across the back. Again, I have read that this is a total fabrication on the part of Hollywood as most real archers are depicted in history as wearing quivers on a waistbelt.

Perhaps native Americans wore their quivers on their backs and the assumption was that that is how it has always been done.

I'm inclined to give the Irish/Macedonians a pass, because it was deliberate, and there was a point to it.
(i.e. the 'civilized' Greeks spoke 'proper' English, while those from the wilder fringes of the Greek world were given an accent from the 'wilder fringes'of the Anglophone world.)

Stuff that grates:

All cultures, at all times in history, had feisty outspoken women who freely transcended cultural gender roles and were the equal-of-any-man at swordplay/blacksmithing whatever.
(Note that "historical accuracy" is maintained by having one guy who has already been established as dumb and/or villainous making a token objection to this. Said objection will quickly be overruled and the subject of patriarchy will never raise it's head again.)

Edge-on-edge swordplay which would quickly ruin – if not break outright – both weapons.

Tracks with bare rutted earth where the cartwheels go – and a strip of lush undisturbed grass down the middle.
The middle. WHERE THE HORSES WOULD TREAD.

Slightly off topic, but I would recommend 'The Time Travellers Guide to Medieval England', a book by Ian Mortimer, here…
link
I really enjoyed it. A very objective look at the subject

Yes, that book is a great read, and hugely informative. A little more expensive, but equally helpful (and covering a good deal left out by Mortimer) is this:

link

I'd highly recommend both of them!

Regarding the film 'Cromwell' and the Sealed Knot:

I was under the impression Peter Young set up the Sealed Knot AFTER the making of 'Cromwell'; and that the first wave of re-enactors bought up the costumes left over from the film. (Young's wife was a British actress and might have had something to do with this).

No cap'n…The Sealed Knot pre-dates Cromwell by some years.
For a ludicrous portrayal of the middle ages you really can't beat Braveheart – utterly dreadful in every department.

I've often wanted to beat 'Braveheart': with a stick.

Me too, but I've never found a big enough stick.

SK founded 1968.
Cromwell made 1970.

Apparently the film was researched for 10 years before being made. I was once told by people in the know that there were about 400 inaccuracies/mistakes in it!

Braveheart is my favorite hate movie….

In defense of the Conan movie, he was trained by Eastern swordmaster's!

Quiver on the back: Whether Europeans wore them or not, th prevalence would come more from 18th and 19th century artists who would draw Robin Hood etc with a back quiver.

As someone who has done some trekking through the woods with a bow and arrows, a proper back quiver ( with a cork bottom) is much preferable, and quieter, than a side quiver, and at least for me, is faster for shooting. However, nothing beats having your arrows in front of you, stuck in the ground.

Kings, magistrates, emperors and other powerful people are generally twisted, evil, corrupted or just generally ugly and stupid. The same goes for their minions, who mainly just rape, kill and pillage for the fun of it.

Rebels, outlaws, bandits and insurgents on the other hand are mostly generous, moral, loyal, and of course very handsome – even with dirt on their faces and blood on their hands.

Women are very outspoken, emancipated and modern in most – if not all – their ways. Some of them even fight like trained soldiers.

And speaking of women: love is the driving force in most of the protagonists' endeavors. Not greed, not power, not raw egoism, but love – in its most modern, romantic form of course.

"Kings, magistrates, emperors and other powerful people are generally twisted, evil, corrupted or just generally ugly and stupid."

I don't know, reading history makes me think this is pretty much true…..

I like the references to the Sealed Knot. The ones I met would quite happily be paid in drink…

It is comforting and confidence-building to "know your place". Having someone in charge of everything is a great way to live! Of course, when that someone is an utter bastard then only armed rebellion is the answer.

All medieval people had plenty of weapons. It was the age of easy to make weapons, cheap, readily available materials, and lots of bodies with intent, make for a good story and "last battle", which is why that scenario shows up in books and movies so much….