chironex | 01 Mar 2016 3:36 a.m. PST |
OK, so the zombies are coming, civilisation has fallen, or maybe you're just hunting or adventuring in the woods. What weapons have you got? Well, if you're a wargame miniature, you've got the latest tactical arms covered in tacticool cr@p, even if you are just some kid who works at KFC. Everyone has milspec weapons, no matter their budget, circumstances or, you know, that alien concept called the law. Everyone lives in Georgia or Louisiana, USA; is over 21 even though they appear to be anywhere from 12 to 17, and is bloody rich. So Hasslefree and others are making a few civilian figures with more likely weapons, and you can often pick a couple out of Reapers 20th century packs, but we just can't get a good range of normal weapons that not only could someone outside the US actually own, but would plausibly be left to scavenge after the end. I got a bit idle recently and decided to make this image. I would want to see a sprue like this, but really, it's just wishing, as WGF don't offer this sort of wishing any more. link I find a weapons sprue like this much more plausible, what do you think? No, no way in hell am I inserting a chainsaw. Brilliant for murder, torture and intimidation, but pathetic and dangerous for combat. |
Vigilant | 01 Mar 2016 4:16 a.m. PST |
Cool idea. Spares from the Perry and Warlord plastic sets can fill in some gaps, and the Wargames Factory survivors sets had a huge range of spare weapons, hopefully the reissues by Warlord will still have these. Other alternatives can be sourced from The Assault Group in their modern and Vietnam ranges. |
bandit86 | 01 Mar 2016 4:26 a.m. PST |
Stuff like this works and I know there was one someplace that had a nail gun link link |
bsrlee | 01 Mar 2016 5:57 a.m. PST |
A number of military rifle of the late 19th and early 20th Centuries are available, particularly with things like Warlord's plastic WW2 boxes, you can get plenty of spare '03 Springfields, Mauser 98's, SMLEs and Moisin Nagants – all you have to do is convince your friends who are making up plastic multi-part figures to give you the 'surplus' weapons. As for weapons in a real collapse, you are more likely to see things like knife-on-a-stick, various sports bats (cricket, baseball, hockey for instance). Crossbows, where someone has the skill to make them, are more likely to be very crude bent wood bows tied to a stick type not aluminium stocked compounds. Lengths of scrap pipe or a length of 2x4 would be popular – golf clubs are really only good for one good shot before they would bend or break. |
Grelber | 01 Mar 2016 6:04 a.m. PST |
I like the idea of out of date weaponry. My great uncle had a Mauser pistol with wooden holster that converted into a stock so it could be fired from the shoulder, something he brought home from France in 1918. My father-in-law has his grandfather's trapdoor Springfield issued to our troops in 1898, and converted to fire modern .22 ammunition. Grelber |
CAPTAIN BEEFHEART | 01 Mar 2016 6:09 a.m. PST |
A lot of my WGF figures are equipped with baseball bats and golf clubs. I agree with the non-Milspec weapon choices. |
wminsing | 01 Mar 2016 6:12 a.m. PST |
I find a weapons sprue like this much more plausible, what do you think? Well that depends on the timing and flavor of your apocalypse. Your mil-spec weapons could have easily come from raiding a national guard armory (or foreign equivalent) or police station. Or maybe your guys are former military or cops who are striking out on your own. But a sprue with hunting rifles and shotguns would indeed have all sorts of uses. -Will |
Darkoath | 01 Mar 2016 6:50 a.m. PST |
Well at one time I was into archery. If you went to one big sporting goods store it would be easy to find upwards of a hundred compound and recurve bows and thousands of arrows… and all the supplies to maintain them and build more arrows. |
Frederick | 01 Mar 2016 7:09 a.m. PST |
Old guns work well just as long as you clean them and have cartridges – which is the rub for post-apoc; I can see how cartridges might be hard to find So immediately post-apoc guns are good, but after a while I can see either black powder weapons or, more likely, sharp instruments If it happens, I strongly recommend a visit to Graz which would become the capital of a major European power – where their museum has more than 30,000 spears, halberds and bills in perfect order link |
The Shadow | 01 Mar 2016 8:35 a.m. PST |
>>Old guns work well just as long as you clean them and have cartridges – which is the rub for post-apoc; I can see how cartridges might be hard to find<< Cartridges will be easy to find at first. "Preppers" have more stockpiled than you can imagine and sport shooters typically have a few thousand in their safes. Police department arsenals will also contain plenty of cartridges. Not to mention military installations. There are certainly more cartridges in existence all over the world than there are people to shoot. But assuming that the available cartridges all get used up, there is still a lot of reloading equipment and components around, so as ammo disappears enterprising people will start to manufacture cartridges for their own use and to trade or sell. So cartridges will *never* be in short supply. >>As for weapons in a real collapse, you are more likely to see things like knife-on-a-stick<< That won't happen as firearms in the millions exist all over the world. Not only modern weapons, but rifles and pistols from WW II, Korea and other conflicts that have been warehoused in many countries. For instance, the NRA has been trying to negotiate a purchase of thousands of WW II weapons that have been warehoused in South Korea since the Korean War. Old Chinese and Russian SKS and Moisin-Nagant rifles have been flooding the USA over the last couple of decades, and they are so numerous that they can be purchased for very low prices. So there will be no need for the population to arm themselves with pitchforks after the end of civilization. |
etotheipi | 01 Mar 2016 9:14 a.m. PST |
Don't forget the cricket bat! Also, if you can make a wire spear, you can make a length of pipe. You can improvise a morning star from a lot of things people have lying around. Of course, your best bet is booby traps, so I usually have some civvies with pieces and parts for building them. This is where I get a guy with a chainsaw … he's now a sapper. Also, if you're of a nautical bent, don't forget the boat hook (again, if you can make a wire spear …) and monkey's fist. Lots of options for the Molotov cocktail, as well. |
Rdfraf | 01 Mar 2016 9:39 a.m. PST |
The last time our gaming group had a zombie game, we only allowed players to carry what they actually owned in real life. A couple had pistols, three had antique rifles/muskets from re-enacting. Only two of us had assault rifles and one of those had a ballistic vest, bite resistant gloves and a US Kevlar helmet. One poor soul had just a hammer and scissors. But the best one had Roman reenactment armor carrying a WW1 German rifle and a katana. It will be nice to see the type of weapons that the general public would likely have. |
The Shadow | 01 Mar 2016 9:49 a.m. PST |
>>But the best one had Roman reenactment armor carrying a WW1 German rifle and a katana.<< Now *there's a mini that I'd like to see. :-) >>It will be nice to see the type of weapons that the general public would likely have<< Obviously the public is better armed than many gamers realize. |
wminsing | 01 Mar 2016 9:56 a.m. PST |
But the best one had Roman reenactment armor carrying a WW1 German rifle and a katana. This just made my day. -Will |
Prince Rupert of the Rhine | 01 Mar 2016 11:16 a.m. PST |
Weapons will kind of depends on country, I would guess, here in the UK most people don't have regular contact with firearms. Some farmers and country types might have shotguns or bolt action rifles. Inner city gangs/criminals/drug dealers might have some handguns, sawn offs or the odd SMG. Of course there are military and police weapons but most people in the UK would have little idea how to use or maintain them properly. Most UK citizens would be using household knives, garden tools, antiques passed down or sporting gear as improvised weapons I would have thought. The wiki page on UK police firearms is interesting from a post apocalyptic survivors point of view. link |
Cherno | 01 Mar 2016 12:06 p.m. PST |
I think the movie (and novel?) The Road did it right, with the main character only having one old revolver with two bullets in it. I could also imagine people building the type of "zip guns" that are used in, amon other places, the Palestinian territories by youths fighting against the Israeli military… I think there was a documentary about the underground gun manufacturers in that region. It looked like anybody can make a one-shot, unreliable-as-hell gun if he has access to a few basic materials like a metal pipe and some rubber string. |
Shadowcat20 | 01 Mar 2016 12:16 p.m. PST |
HMMMMM…. gun collection…check Reloading equipment and supplies…check A few good swords, daggers, knives and viking axe….check Rack of Chain maile shirts in the basement….check SCA Grade leg and arm armor and helms…check… OK…I am ready…bring em on.. |
The Shadow | 01 Mar 2016 1:37 p.m. PST |
>>And they'll likely still be there at the start of the apoc.<< Depends who's in the office of POTUS next term. If she's a Democrat they'll stay where they are. If he's a Republican we might get them after all. >>Existence of arms does not necessarily equate to distribution to those who could actually use them in a skilled manner.<< Here in the USA there are a *lot* of veterans, hunters and sportsmen that can handle firearms. The rest would learn, or hire people that know how, or (shrug) die. The firearms are here…by the *millions*. Every competition shooter that I know has several firearms. The reason that I mentioned South Korea is to point out that there are weapons warehoused all over the world. And as everyone knows, money talks. So even the Brits will have firearms funneled in from Europe, Asia, Africa, and the Middle East if they have anything to trade. |
Norman D Landings | 01 Mar 2016 1:50 p.m. PST |
Random thoughts… Point taken about the realistic firearms, but do we need the sculpts? How detailed do you want your miniatures? On the tabletop, I'd be happy to accept a generic bolt-action sporter as anything from Grandad's squirrel gun to something from Holland & Holland's custom shop. Same goes for a generic pistol – it'll do for a WWII-souvenir 1911, a bargain-basement Hi-point, service issue sidearm, or a Bill Wilson supergrade. Another factor to consider is how long ago the SHTF. Any full-on 'Zombie Apocalypse' scenario (as opposed to 'limited outbreak' scenarios) implies that, somewhere along the way, the military response fails. After that happens… Milspec weapons do indeed become the most prevalent firearms. Prised from the gnawed fingers of their original owners! Something I've noticed in TWD: lots of the seemingly Milspec rifles are civilian AR15's… without sights. That is, they're set up with flat tops or picatinnys for aftermarket sights or scopes, but don't have any fitted. This fits well with the premise of a high gun-ownership setting (Georgia)but a user group who probably aren't the weapon's original owners, aren't skilled in zeroing sights, or can't spare the ammo/risk the gunshots to do so, or who have found that lovely Leupold 4-12 is no use whatever when the target's at arm's length! |
GarrisonMiniatures | 01 Mar 2016 2:52 p.m. PST |
Even countries like the UK have armies and police with access to guns. During an event like this, those guns are in action, together with lots of ammo. Should be possible to pick up something useful… |
Twoball Cane | 01 Mar 2016 3:12 p.m. PST |
In the USA the motto is…."when seconds count the police take minutes" While I abide by the law…vote..pay taxes and such…I wouldn't rely on the police to restore order. |
Prince Rupert of the Rhine | 01 Mar 2016 3:14 p.m. PST |
True but how many UK citizens have any clue how to use a gun even if I could get one I wouldn't have the foggiest about proper maintenance or proper use. I'd most likely be a terrible shot and certainly not good enough to put a round through a zombie head except at point blank range. I'd probably be safer to myself and others in motorcycle leathers and helmet with a cricket bat than with a gun. |
Timbo W | 01 Mar 2016 3:32 p.m. PST |
I have a scythe in the shed and a rather druidy looking sickle, apart from those, lengths of 2 by 4, molotovs and the car are most deadly weapons I suppose. |
Balthazar Marduk | 01 Mar 2016 3:55 p.m. PST |
Well, I've it's set in Canada it would make sense that everyone has a mix of SKS, SVT-40s, Cz. 58s and Mosin-Nagant rifles… Because you can afford any of them after cashing in their cans. |
D A THB | 01 Mar 2016 5:14 p.m. PST |
I surrendered my gun license years ago as I did not see the need to have guns anymore. I'd know how to use one if I got my hands on one in an emergency. In the meantime I'd have to use things like a machete, weight training bar or a hammer. I'd not bother with my 12 inch bladed chainsaw! However for gaming I'd assume that all the poorly armed civilians would have turned into Zombies already, so the survivors would have the pick of more suitable weapons. |
skippy0001 | 01 Mar 2016 6:14 p.m. PST |
Police stations evidence room have impounded weapons which could be extremely eclectic. |
Dragon Gunner | 01 Mar 2016 6:45 p.m. PST |
It will depend largely on where you live… I grew up in a blue liberal state MOST people I knew there were antigun, antimilitary and non hunters. A couple of them were seasonal deer or pheasant hunters. I currently live in a red conservative state and EVERYONE I know owns an assault rifle and a plethora of other guns not to mention thousands of rounds of ammunition. A few could produce some other surprises… I would also add red conservative states have more veterans than blue states, a personal observation I can't quote any data. Not only veterans but combat arms veterans! |
Twoball Cane | 01 Mar 2016 7:35 p.m. PST |
Dragon…agree w you there mostly….I think the combat veterans and where they're from varies though. All blue states have their share of good ol boys…..I live in a blue state and I know friends who have an awful lot of firepower….I live 15 mins from smith and Wesson….that would be a great place to hole up…..I live 5 mins from the Springfield armory (USAs first federal armory) it is loaded w guns. Many would have the same idea though. My gun collection is modest w only 2….. They're useless in a surprise cause they are locked, hidden, w trigger guards…..the ammo is kept at my fathers place….so it's ball peen hammer and trench knife for me dem zombies come a bitin! |
Lion in the Stars | 01 Mar 2016 7:53 p.m. PST |
If you went to one big sporting goods store it would be easy to find upwards of a hundred compound and recurve bows and thousands of arrows… and all the supplies to maintain them and build more arrows. This. One big sporting goods store (like the Cabela's here in Boise) in the US can arm a battalion with bows alone. And at least another battalion with firearms, probably more like a division. Old guns work well just as long as you clean them and have cartridges – which is the rub for post-apoc; I can see how cartridges might be hard to find Reloading supplies are your frenemy. I have a 5000ct case of Small Pistol primers I bought and don't have a reloader yet. |
Dragon Gunner | 01 Mar 2016 8:11 p.m. PST |
"All blue states have their share of good ol boys……"- Twoball Crane I have no doubt about that but when the bulk of the population prides itself on non gun ownership as a sign of enlightenment most would become zombie fodder or easy pickings for more brutal survivors. The police they rely on will not save them. I am not trying to insult you but I think getting to your father's house during a zombie apocalypse would make for an interesting first game. I would be willing to bet survival rates would be higher in communities where gun ownership was higher. I am willing to bet the gun density where I live could arm every man, woman and child in the region. One more thing to other readers I realize zombies are not real so take a deep breath this is just a fun topic. |
The Shadow | 01 Mar 2016 8:13 p.m. PST |
I am not a "survivalist" or "preper", but being a military gamer I have given some thought to what I would do if the apoc actually happened. In my mind I've tallied who, in my area in my town could be counted on to join together to form a small militia type unit because of their ability with firearms, and even though I live in anti-gun New Jersey, about half of the men are *very* familiar with firearms and own at least one. My immediate neighbor is in the Army national Guard, an ex FBI agent lives two houses down from him, then there's an avid hunter across the street from the ex agent. diagonally from me there's a trap shooter, and his son is an avid hunter and also a trap shooter. There are a *lot* of guns and men with experience with firearms around here. I have been into shooting sports for many years and I'm proficient with just about every firearm that you can imagine. The other men would be useful as one is an engineer and one is an electrician who's also a race car driver and is proficient with engines. Three of us are Veterans. The thing is, I don't think that our area is much different than any other area in Hunterdon County, so I don't think that it would be hard to form a militia group around here. And a well armed militia group at that. |
Twoball Cane | 01 Mar 2016 9:35 p.m. PST |
Dragon…def agree with that being a fun scenario to game Melee weapons for zeds and guns for bandits seems a good idea on average. |
Balthazar Marduk | 01 Mar 2016 9:37 p.m. PST |
An interesting statistic that might help. In the Province of British Columbia, one in five people are licensed to own firearms. Canada is in the middle range of firearms ownership internationally. Wikipedia gives you a good breakdown of the per capita ownership rates across the world. Just would be a decent tool to figure out what is available in any given setting. Anyway, as a rule of thumb, you can assume that if there was a zombie plague ravaging BC, one in five people would be armed and familiar with the use of guns. These people are likely to own more than one and can arm others that would be less competent. Some of these statistics can even sort out the classification of weapons. The EU has an extensive classification system to aid in this. If you have a specific place in mind, I can dig around and help you figure out what is common and what is not. |
goragrad | 02 Mar 2016 12:00 a.m. PST |
Well, I have the lorica, dog collar, helm, and plate leg armor from SCA days. Have a broadsword from a Christmas gift along with a replica of the presentation saber given to King Jan Sobieski. Broadsword is a pretty decent replica, not sure of the steel in the saber, but against zombies… Alternates/secondary – 32 oz. framer, 2.5 lb cruiser double bit, 8in chef, boy's axe, main gauche, camp axe, 12 in screwdriver. And then there are the metal and woodworking tools as weapons or to make weapons with. Possible firearms would probably be PSL or AK (depending on expected ranges) with a Ruger MK III (accurate and can carry lots of ammo). If one were making a crossbow, a section of leaf spring would make a decent prod. Pieces of sharpened rod or spikes for bolts. |
Stealth1000 | 02 Mar 2016 1:05 a.m. PST |
I am in the UK. I have a crossbow, machetes, knives and a couple of swords. There are a lot of shotguns round here as I live in the country. |
Ranger322 | 02 Mar 2016 2:39 a.m. PST |
Interesting topic, got me thinking…What all do I have around the house in the event of X? -S&W 9mm -Glock .40 cal -Various knives -3 x long bows (two youth, one adult size) -Baseball bats x 5?6? -Medieval two handed sword, would need sharpened -Medieval flail -Lots of long handled yard tools (shovels, rakes, hoes, axes) I've decided I need to add at least 1 shotgun and 1 hunting rifle w/ scope… |
The Shadow | 02 Mar 2016 8:20 a.m. PST |
>>I've decided I need to add at least 1 shotgun and 1 hunting rifle w/ scope<< Right. Rifles and shotguns are waaay more efficient for hunting and protection against bands of marauders than pistols will ever be. I can train a novice to hit a man with a rifle at 100 yards fairly quickly, but in timed competition I see people miss man sized targets with a pistol at 75 *feet* all the time. |
Scorpio | 02 Mar 2016 10:45 a.m. PST |
Guns are loud, and attract more zombies. And unless you have the capability to carry the equipment to make bullets with you, will only really be great for the first year or so, depending on how many bullets you have. Within short order though, melee weapons would become the norm, IMHO. Makeshift spears from gardening tools and baseball bats would be the most likely here in the states. |
Weasel | 02 Mar 2016 2:43 p.m. PST |
What kind of situation? If its just a government collapse, it'll be bad but people will sort out law and order while a new system gets established. If its a civil war, you'll end up drafted into some faction soon enough. They'll have a spare AK. If it's the zombies, the zombie survival guide said an M2 carbine and a machete. If you can find a knife, brick or lead pipe, find someone with a gun and kill them, then take their gun. Joking aside, there's lots of firearms in stores, but ever seen a zombie movie where going to the big city was a good idea? Get a mountain bike and head to the wilderness. Wait it out there and hope you don't die from a normally easily preventable disease.
|
Darkoath | 02 Mar 2016 2:51 p.m. PST |
Just wrapping some magazines around your fore arms with duct tape and putting on some leather gardening gloves would really help I would imagine… |
Dragon Gunner | 02 Mar 2016 6:26 p.m. PST |
"find someone with a gun and kill them, then take their gun."- Weasel Good luck with the attempt and hope he doesn't have companions that are armed nearby… |
Dragon Gunner | 02 Mar 2016 6:30 p.m. PST |
"If its just a government collapse, it'll be bad but people will sort out law and order while a new system gets established."- Weasel In the mean time don't call 911 and expect law enforcement to show up and save you. Law and Order may have nothing to do with due process or courts… |
The Shadow | 02 Mar 2016 8:34 p.m. PST |
Nuclear war is the most possible Apocalyptic scenario. |
Stepman3 | 04 Mar 2016 7:18 a.m. PST |
We did some zombie gaming and what you owned was what you could use. Actually the game started with what you had in your vehicle is what you had to get you to your house to get your equipment. I had in my truck a set of turn-out gear (firefighter as an occupation) and an axe. It counted as bite proof but slowed me down. Once my character got home then was it able to stock up on rifles and handguns, nothing exotic though… A .270, .45 Glock. SKS, .22 and a 12ga… Check out Reaper, they do a few good weapon sets and Hasslefree makes good figures stripped of anything to milspec… |
Weasel | 04 Mar 2016 8:34 a.m. PST |
Dragon Gunner – People with guns still have to sleep. For all our fascination with firepower, cracking someone over the head with a brick will kill a man just fine and anyone relying on just their guns to survive is basically dead meat. Learn to make food from limited supplies, learn first aid, learn to work with people and recognize dangers, learn how to build something. Your M16 won't keep you from getting hypothermia in the woods. Doesn't mean owning a firearm isn't useful in some situations or a good skill to have, but I know a lot of gun nerds here in Oregon who aren't going to last 15 minutes in the scenario they keep dreaming about. |
The Shadow | 04 Mar 2016 9:34 a.m. PST |
>>For all our fascination with firepower, cracking someone over the head with a brick will kill a man just fine and anyone relying on just their guns to survive is basically dead meat.<< Militia and teams would be extremely important. I'm sure that I could form one in my neighborhood. Guards would be posted. People attacking with hand to hand weapons would be immediately dispatched. >>Learn to make food from limited supplies, learn first aid, learn to work with people and recognize dangers, learn how to build something.<< Game in plentiful in my area. My wife and I are first aid certified. She is on the Civilian Emergency Response Team AKA CERT and has been well trained along with several other people in my neighborhood. I don't think that we would have to build something. Maintaining what exists would be more important. Why would you want to go into the woods, except to hunt? Chances of survival after an atomic attack would be better if you and your team confined yourselves to a couple of defendable homes next to each other and erected a barricade around the settlement. Some of my neighbors are hunters. They know how to skin and butcher deer. There is plenty of fowl around too. And if you get desperate, raccoons, squirrels and rabbits. Just about everyone here grows something. It's not difficult to grow peppers, tomatoes and other crops. I don't eat fish, but there are fish in the rivers and reservoirs. Many of us also have emergency generators. Gasoline would be a problem, but heat wouldn't be, as many of our homes have working wood stoves and there is plenty of wood around. Firearms for hunting and safety would be much more important than people realize. Food and shelter are primary, but you won't have them long if you run into people that need food, and that have firearms, and you don't. |
The Angry Piper | 04 Mar 2016 12:00 p.m. PST |
Chironex: I love that you included a spear gun on your fantasy sprue. Awesome! You know, as cool as carrying a crossbow around may be, I think it's an absolutely horrible weapon for zombie warfare. Might have its place for taking out a lone zed or two quietly, but using it like Daryl in TWD against hordes is just plain dumb. Fire once and you'll get chomped while you're reloading! |
The Shadow | 04 Mar 2016 12:51 p.m. PST |
Angry Piper The LAW Daryl used to wipe out the bikers was a considerably more efficient weapon. (-: |
ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa | 04 Mar 2016 3:45 p.m. PST |
Ice axe. A walking one – not one of the technical ice climbing ones. Geological hammer – not one of those poncy little things you sometimes see Claw hammer Chisels Improvised incendiary/explosive devices Slings – probably not a common skill and you're probably unlikely to develop the skill quick enough to avoid getting 'et, but can be fabricated pretty easily Athletics javelin |
Weasel | 04 Mar 2016 6:48 p.m. PST |
The Shadow – You reaffirmed what I was saying. To defend yourself realistically, you need to form some sort of coherent unit, militia or similar. By the time you have that, you've reasserted law and order, allowing specialization of tasks: Defence, foraging, medical services, building/repairing shelter etc and allowing a group to generate a far better survival chance than one loon in a cave. One guy in a cave with a rifle will likely die if he breaks a leg. One guy with a rifle and three friends without will probably make it just fine. There's really no instances in human history where a law-less state persisted for very long. Even in failed states, people take matters into their own hands and figure something out. Sometimes thats mutual aid, sometimes its the biggest BEEP on the block staking a claim.
Of course, that's assuming the neighbouring country doesn't just roll in and take things over. |