Weasel | 26 Feb 2016 10:58 a.m. PST |
If you had to survive in the trenches, which rifle would you rather have with it? A: Mauser G98. The archetype of the military bolt-action rifle. B: Enfield "SMLE". Stuck around until after Korea after all. C: Mannlicher. Turn-bolts are for chumps. D: Carcano. That extra round loaded makes all the difference. E: Moissin-Nagant. If it's good enough for Brusilov AND Berlin, it's good enough for me. F: Lebel. 8 shots in the tube and the first smokeless powder service rifle. G: Springfield 30-06. That guy from Saving Private Ryan couldn't be wrong, could he? H: Something else. (yes, I am well aware that the ww2 versions of some of these were modified a fair bit)
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Irish Marine | 26 Feb 2016 11:03 a.m. PST |
G. Springfield all the way. |
troopwo | 26 Feb 2016 11:09 a.m. PST |
The SMLE does have aprobably the nicest smooth handling bolt. The P14 and M1917 are too often overlooked. The P14 is a very nice rifle. The M1917 was the equipment of the AEF, not the Springfield. For accuracy, nothing beats a Ross. Only for crying out loud, don't dare feed it that poor wartime ('14-'18) British or US out of spec ammo. It was a target rifle designed for ammo madee to peace time standards. Modified Ross's were still winning biathalons for the USSR into the late sixties! |
Old Contemptibles | 26 Feb 2016 11:40 a.m. PST |
Springfield. Love that rifle. |
Martin Rapier | 26 Feb 2016 11:46 a.m. PST |
I'll take a Lee Enfield please. Ten round mag beats the Mauser every time, and if it was good enough for my Dad, it is good enough for me. The versions with barrage sights out to 2000 yards are so cool…. |
John Armatys | 26 Feb 2016 11:46 a.m. PST |
B: SMLE. And if you have the Ross keep it clean and make sure that you assemble the bolt properly afterwards. |
Frederick | 26 Feb 2016 11:53 a.m. PST |
For a service weapon, the Enfield SMLE |
Lou from BSM | 26 Feb 2016 12:19 p.m. PST |
H. The one that didn't jam when I needed it most!!! |
epturner | 26 Feb 2016 12:22 p.m. PST |
G. No question about it. Eric |
Tgerritsen | 26 Feb 2016 12:39 p.m. PST |
I'd have to go with the Enfield, though the Mauser and Mosin-Nagant are close seconds. |
Mister Tibbles | 26 Feb 2016 12:56 p.m. PST |
Lou, you are so right! H. M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle. They didn't call them trench brooms for nothin'! Of course, this assumes that I do not engage the enemy until September 1918 and am an American and my BAR is within specs. :-) If I have to fight before that, I'll take a Mosin-Nagant, as long as I don't have to fight as a Russian. Otherwise, the Enfield. |
Weasel | 26 Feb 2016 1:03 p.m. PST |
Wish for a BAR and get a Chauchat ;-) |
Ashurman | 26 Feb 2016 1:22 p.m. PST |
B. Fast & easy to work the bolt, accurate enough, and the 10-round box gives me the ability to put lots of fire downrange fast! |
Cerdic | 26 Feb 2016 1:23 p.m. PST |
If I had to survive the trenches I wouldn't give a monkey's what rifle I had as long as I had a very deep dugout…. |
Greg G1 | 26 Feb 2016 1:28 p.m. PST |
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wrgmr1 | 26 Feb 2016 1:48 p.m. PST |
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The Beast Rampant | 26 Feb 2016 2:21 p.m. PST |
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Buckeye AKA Darryl | 26 Feb 2016 2:24 p.m. PST |
H. The vast majority of Americans were armed with the .30-06 Enfield, known as the P17 or M1917, as troopwo points out. One Sergeant Alvin York carried the P17 when doing the deed that earned him the Medal of Honor. As an owner of one, it is a fine rifle (mine had a replacement barrel installed during WWII). And then the other rifle not being mentioned…the Browning Automatic RIFLE. :) Okay, not really used until very late, but it is a rifle! |
Weasel | 26 Feb 2016 2:37 p.m. PST |
Good call on the M1917. Add options as appropriate (or in case there's any Mondragon fans lurking :) ) |
MHoxie | 26 Feb 2016 3:37 p.m. PST |
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Old Contemptibles | 26 Feb 2016 4:38 p.m. PST |
The M1917 was a stop gap issued to some units until Springfield production caught up with the demand. The 1903A3 Springfield was the standard issue rifle of the Army and Marines during WW1. It remained so until the 1930s (longer with the Marines) when it was replaced by the M1 Garand. I forgot Sgt. York used a Springfield in the movie but he did his remarkable feat with M1917. I guess the M1917 wasn't PC. |
Norman D Landings | 26 Feb 2016 4:40 p.m. PST |
SMLE. Three words: Short. Pull. Action. You fire, reload, and fire again… …WITHOUT having to take the weapon away from your shoulder and break your sight picture! It's hard to convey what a massive paradigm shift that is to people who don't shoot. |
Bob the Temple Builder | 26 Feb 2016 4:45 p.m. PST |
Norman D Landings is absolutely spot on! The design of the Mauser bolt means that you cannot keep the rifle lined up on your target whilst you reload. I've fired both … and the SMLE wins by a mile. |
Old Contemptibles | 26 Feb 2016 4:53 p.m. PST |
BAR? Few if any made it into combat. |
JSchutt | 26 Feb 2016 4:58 p.m. PST |
I've had or still have an original of all of these (including a Maxim 08) except the Springfield. Though the Mauser was tough to beat I liked the clip, bayonet and action on the Berthier Lebel a bit better. |
jgibbons | 26 Feb 2016 5:59 p.m. PST |
Sorry Rallynow… I dont think you are right… Check the posts above yours… I think only the earliest units sent overseas (the Marines etc) typically carried 03's… 1917's for most f the rest of the lads if i recall..l also think 1903A3 production began in WW2… |
jgibbons | 26 Feb 2016 6:04 p.m. PST |
I have many of the originally listed choices (no Carcano or Lebel yet though i am looking for a nice Lebel)… I also have the P14 and 17… And they are all fine rifles (though the Hungarian M95 takes a little getting used to)… I would probably choose the Lee Enfield for the reasons cited above… But they all have good points.. |
Random Die Roll | 26 Feb 2016 6:10 p.m. PST |
H. M1918 BAR Rumored to have been so high tech that it was not supposed to be issued for fear of it falling into enemy hands. |
miniMo | 26 Feb 2016 6:57 p.m. PST |
Flieger-Selbstladekarabiner, Modell 1915 Aviator's Selfloading Carbine, Model 1915, with the 30-round drum magazine! link |
Weasel | 26 Feb 2016 7:08 p.m. PST |
I left out the Berthier which might have been a better option for the French but most troops never got one (and most were in 3 shot mag anyways) As far American rifles, wiki suggests 75% were Enfield and the rest Springfields. Always thought it was the other way around for some reason. Trivia time: A small number of Russian rifles were actually manufactured in the US but they didn't get finished in time before the revolution. SOme of the American intervention force were using them at Archangel. |
Graycat | 26 Feb 2016 7:35 p.m. PST |
I have a Moissin-Nagant. Shipped w/o any back ground check or any other check, with modern ammo, and left on my neighbor's porch w/o a signiture, in a neighborhood full of kids, because the UPS driver was too stupid to read house numbers. I really long to fire it, but I think I'm going to have to do it by remote the first time, with the breech under a sandbag. |
Pizzagrenadier | 26 Feb 2016 7:50 p.m. PST |
SMLE. That 10 round mag and short fast bolt would be a big selling point in the trenches. I love the Mauser only when it gets to the Kar 98k. Then it's a fine rifle, though by that time I'd rather have an M1 Carbine or Garand. |
piper909 | 27 Feb 2016 12:50 a.m. PST |
Yep, the Enfield for me, too. And I'd echo everything Pizzagrenadier said above, too, altho' I *think* I'd still take the SMLE over the Garand rifle, altho' I am mighty fond of the carbine, but have never fired it. Does it have the same hard kick as the rifle? How does it compare to the SMLE in that respect? |
Martin Rapier | 27 Feb 2016 2:40 a.m. PST |
As wargamers, I'm sure we would all like our chaps to carry BARs. However as the PBI who has to carry the thing for days on end a long with all my other gear, keep it clean etc, I'll still take a Lee Enfield please. A pistol for trench fighting might come in handy though. |
Pizzagrenadier | 27 Feb 2016 6:33 p.m. PST |
Piper909: Oh man, the M1 Carbine shoots like a dream. I love mine. Best gun I've ever owned. It's light, has amazingly controllable recoil (nowhere near a rifle) that doesn't mess up your sight picture and with 15 round mags, you're set. Range is much more limited than a rifle but most combat ranges aren't long enough that that would be a problem. Love my Carbine. |
Shagnasty | 27 Feb 2016 8:52 p.m. PST |
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goragrad | 28 Feb 2016 5:18 p.m. PST |
SMLE. One of these days I'd like to take the No. 4 and see if I could come close to the Aussie's who were putting out 50-60 rounds per minute at Gallipoli. |
Weasel | 28 Feb 2016 5:41 p.m. PST |
Martin – I almost did "best ww1 pistol" but there's a bewildering variety that saw service. |
ubercommando | 29 Feb 2016 5:58 a.m. PST |
If you can convince your enemy that you're armed with machineguns instead of rifles because of the rate of fire you can put out then you've got a winner! SMLE! |