Help support TMP


"Line charges to clear mine fields" Topic


18 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

Please don't call someone a Nazi unless they really are a Nazi.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Modern Discussion (1946 to 2013) Message Board


Areas of Interest

Modern

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Top-Rated Ruleset

Team Yankee


Rating: gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star 


Featured Showcase Article

Amazon's Bad Kids

At Christmas, the good kids get presents. Ever wondered what happened to the bad kids?


Featured Profile Article

First Look: Barrage's 28mm Streets & Sidewalks

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian looks at some new terrain products, which use space age technology!


Current Poll


Featured Book Review


Featured Movie Review


1,113 hits since 25 Feb 2016
©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?


TMP logo

Membership

Please sign in to your membership account, or, if you are not yet a member, please sign up for your free membership account.
Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP25 Feb 2016 6:36 p.m. PST

If you meet a minefield one clearing option is line charges. But how do these work exactly. If the minefield is, let's say, 1000 yards wide and 300 deep.

Do you clear just one path or several?

Personal logo Saber6 Supporting Member of TMP Fezian25 Feb 2016 6:48 p.m. PST

Usually only the number of paths you need. IIRC basically a path about as wide as a tank

Mako1125 Feb 2016 6:53 p.m. PST

Several, I suspect, so as not to be limited to only one, which would be a severe bottleneck to an advance.b

Zagloba25 Feb 2016 7:04 p.m. PST

First you get everyone to form a line, then they charge into minefield. Simple.

Mardaddy25 Feb 2016 8:42 p.m. PST

You clear as many as you have the capability and need for.

Line charges are specifically designed to clear a lane as wide as a tank.

In the USMC line charges are deployed either in a trailer (M58) or as in Desert Shield/Storm where there was plenty of time in the lead-up, installed into the LVTP-7's. Either way, a set-up is three rockets that can clear 100 meters each.

In modern warfare, minefields are not just, "area denial," but also meant to halt & delay advancing armor in a fire sack for artillery to pummel.

I was with 1st CEB in Desert Storm, we had plenty of Combat Engineers who were awarded Bronze Stars (w/V) for running into the minefields to manually prime and detonate dud line charges.

Apache 625 Feb 2016 10:39 p.m. PST

Don't look at a minefield by itself, First identify the enemy force that is covering it. Then try to identify bypasses. Bypassing or breaching is a commander's decision based on local conditions, a bypass is usually faster then breaching, but bypasses may be left intentionally to
'turn' the enemy into an engagement area/kill zone.

Friendly ISR and recon teams are going to observe and look for gaps and lanes in the minefield. It's very resource intensive to employ large minefields. Lanes are usually left to allow for security forces to withdraw through. Gaps often exist due to terrain, lack of munitions, or other reasons.

Modern western forces will, if resources permit, attempt to breach two lanes for an assaulting company. The second one is redundant.

The most important consideration for the success of a brech is how effectively the enemy is able to cover his obstacles. To ensure success of a breach, prior to commitment of the breach force, the manuever commander suppresses the enemy's battle positions that are covering the obstacle. There will very likely also be smoke employed both by artillery/mortars and the breach force itself through both smoke grenades and smoke generators. For a deliberate/planned breach, they will normally be supported by electronic warfare and covered by a counter battery radar. (or aircraft with equivalent capabilties)

As to employment of the linecharge, US and UK systems are very similar, both will clear (most mines) out of about about 100 yards x 5 yards. The line charge vehicle will normally approach the suspected edge of minefield (here's where that recon and ISR employment makes a huge difference) stopping about 25 meters from the expected edge of the minefield and fires a linecharge.

If your minefield is 300 m deep, then 3 charges will be fired successively from inside the field. Mineplows will normally be used to proof the lane. Most mines will be detonated by linecharges, but they are not 100% effective. There are some mines that are designed to be 'blast resistant.' Line charges will still detonate a fairly large percentage of those, but 'more' survive.

Look up videos of the Assault Breacher Vehicle (ABV) on you tube, that will most likely give you a good idea of employment.

Gennorm26 Feb 2016 8:22 a.m. PST

Some modern mines are designed to 'lock' when subjected to sudden shocks and so avoid being detonated by line charges.

Personal logo javelin98 Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2016 9:53 a.m. PST

On the Army side, we mounted two MICLICs on top of a M60 chassis (which was re-purposed from being an AVLB carrier):

picture

And here is one in action:

picture

The reasoning behind this is that the MICLIC only clears a path 100 meters long, so it may take several to breach a large minefield. As for how many lanes you blow, that's going to depend heavily on the METT-T -- mission, equipment, terrain, time, and troops available. You may have to blow one lane in order to assault the enemy on the far side, and then once the far side is secure, additional lanes can be cleared.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2016 10:09 a.m. PST

thumbs up

capncarp28 Feb 2016 9:32 p.m. PST

Here's an interesting and unnerving thought: anyone ever think of using the line charge as an offensive weapon against an enemy tank or strongpoint?

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP29 Feb 2016 8:05 a.m. PST

I think I have heard that … like using it on a structure in Iraq or A'stan ? It is not a real long range weapon … though … link

zoneofcontrol29 Feb 2016 6:10 p.m. PST

It has been a couple of years since I read it but I seem to recall one from the book "House To House" – David Bellavia. They were in the process of clearing a street of houses and got involved with fighters and an attempted IED bomber. A line charge was fired down the street to speed things up and slow down the opposition.

Cold Steel01 Mar 2016 5:05 a.m. PST

When the Marines retook Fallujah, the bad guys placed lots of IEDs along the main streets at the edge of town. Line charges cleared them out real fast.

Apache 614 Apr 2016 12:34 p.m. PST

Here's a couple of photos of linecharges in action. Quick google search will bring up more.

link


link

Rudysnelson14 Apr 2016 3:14 p.m. PST

In my cavalry platoon in the 1970s, we had det cord issued to the infantry and lesser amounts issued to the scouts. Both had to use it as part of their SQTs but the infantry more than the scouts.
Some of the areas they trained in was the use of the cord to knock down trees to help make barricades or hasty defenses. One tack was to clear a minefield especially in a dirt road, ford and sand situation.
Small patches were cleared using field expedient methods. Everything from tying the cord to a stick or a bayonet to toss as far as possible over the area.
Wow I had not thought about the infantry training in the cavalry for a long time.

UshCha216 Apr 2016 7:58 a.m. PST

perhaps a bit of education is in order. Minefields are defined by the overall distribution of mines per meter frontage the enemy is expected to go through. The maximum typical density is 4 mines per meter. That level practically guarantees that any vehicle moving through the field if undisturbed. will be hit. You will note that I did not mention depth. This is because depth does not matter. 300m or 600m deep it is a querk of the "mathermatics" that at one mine per meter frontage the enemy is still practically guaranteed (around 99%) to hit a mine at 4 mines per meter. That means you make the field as deep as you can, 600m is great or even more. It takes the same number of mines but now the enemy has to plough much more terrain to get the effect.

In reality what often occurs the mines are laid in relatively dense patches in some form of concealed pattern to save time and allow friends to pass through gaps. However this does not aid the enemy if he cannot identify the gaps. Plus if you can lay misleading trails its even better. In deep minefields you may have to use ploughs as the number of line charges could become impractical.

WWII had some very deep minefields on the Russian front some even had bunkers built in to engage clearing troops.

Mine fields will fined only limited use in many games as they need large areas, typically bigger than a simple infantry action game will allow. It may not work with 1 vehicle=1 platoon as the frontage and column lengths are dismally modeled in most games of this type.

Lion in the Stars17 Apr 2016 5:58 p.m. PST

Here's an interesting and unnerving thought: anyone ever think of using the line charge as an offensive weapon against an enemy tank or strongpoint?

Think a typical use was against compounds in A-stan. Makes one hell of a large hole in the walls.

Friend of mine in a Stryker unit was towing a MICLIC trailer when it went kaboom unexpectedly… think he lost a lot of hearing temporarily from that.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.