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"Froeschwiller 1870 BBB, part I" Topic


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vtsaogames19 Feb 2016 8:08 a.m. PST

Last night the Corlears Hook Fencibles started playing a scenario of the 1870 battle of Froeschwiller using the Bloody Big Battles rules. Bill commanded his Prussians, aided by Rick. I led my brave if somewhat immobile Imperial French. This is the scenario that is in the rule book. The terrain is challenging to set up (and play in), using up most of my hills, houses, trees and streams. I had to put down some of my rivers when I ran out of streams. As always, our figures are 15mm.

This picture shows the initial deployment. Froeschwiller is incorrectly labeled as Woerth, just on this photo. That will teach me to check before saving. The lead elements of 3 German Corps are on the table. The French have one brigade to arrive.

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More Prussians arrive. Prussian 20 Brigade advances across the Sulzbach and is pinned down in the near block of the real Woerth town. My middling dice keep them from paying a higher price. Prussian artillery has already forced my mitrailleuses to limber up and fall back. Curses.
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On my left, lead elements of Bavarian II Corps move up to the foot of the steep slope. They will do well.
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On my right, the French artillery can't run fast enough. Krupp guns find their range.
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Bavarians got close to Froeschwiller and came under fire from artillery and mitrailleuses that had been forced back earlier, taking losses.
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A swarm of Prussian infantry mounted the slope and drove the Zouaves back through Froeschwiller. While this was an anxious moment, they masked the fire of the 72 Krupp guns across the valley. The cloud had a silver lining.
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A series of assaults were launched on my left and center. My dice rolled hot and the attacks were almost all stopped with heavy losses. Something went wrong on my left and 1/1 brigade failed to stop the Bavarians, who shot the French up, then closed and beat them back. Another turn or two saw 1/1 brigade scattered to the wind. At Froeschwiller a Prussian attack closed in disorder but was beaten back.
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A battery was silenced and hit badly. While they pulled back up a steep slope the crews and teams were shot down by needle guns. Meanwhile the Turcos halted attack after attack with their blistering rifle fire. 2nd French Division arrived after a dilatory flank march just in time to prevent the Turcos from being flanked.
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These last pictures are taken after we stopped for the evening. This is from the French right, showing the swarm of Prussians coming up the hill.
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A closer view of Froeschwiller (left) and the Turcos (right).
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We moved various buildings around during the game to make troop movement easier. These are the ruined buildings that are inside each of the Paper Terrain buildings. Very nice they are.

With three players and a lot of toys on the table, the game moved slowly. It goes faster with 4 because then two parts of the table can be resolved simultaneously. Lots of assaults the last few turns slowed thing down. There was one long pause while I had to look up just when artillery low on ammo was allowed to fire. All else was on the quick reference sheet. We took over 4 hours to play 6 turns. There are 4 turns left in the game. We should be able to put that away next week. French losses so far: 9 infantry stands removed and one run away (of 39) and 2 of 5 artillery gone. The Germans have lost 7 Prussian and 1 Bavarian infantry (of 76). One artillery has taken hits. The Prussians have not tested my right flank. The main effort has gone up against my center. The line is holding, though mighty thin in places. The shallow hook around my left was met by my slow moving reserve, just as 1/1 brigade dissolved.

I think we are on track for a tie or maybe even a French win, at least by the terms of the scenario rules. In real life, I think the best that can be asked for is to do better than MacMahon did on the actual day. That means retreating quietly during the night instead of running in mad panic during the evening. If the thin line holds for 3 or 4 more turns…

Both sides need to figure out how to coordinate their artillery better. And that hurts the Germans more because their artillery is so powerful. We'll see what transpires next week.

Personal logo Nashville Supporting Member of TMP19 Feb 2016 9:37 a.m. PST

Looks great ---we will be doing a civil war game tomorrow.

vtsaogames19 Feb 2016 9:57 a.m. PST

Which battle? Or a hypothetical one?

DinOfBattle219 Feb 2016 11:59 a.m. PST

Why are your roads yellow? Takes away from a great looking game!

vtsaogames19 Feb 2016 2:55 p.m. PST

Because I had a big piece of yellow felt?
What color felt should I get the next time I'm at Michael's, Eric?

Major Mike19 Feb 2016 3:08 p.m. PST

I've used light brown felt to represent roads.

KTravlos19 Feb 2016 3:55 p.m. PST

pretty good

ezza12320 Feb 2016 2:45 a.m. PST

On the subject of terrain in BBB, when we first started trying out the scenarios from the book we set up the terrain as shown on the scenario map. The table does get very full going down this route. Now we tend to look to see what the main terrain pieces are to put on the table. For example if there is a mix of towns and villages on the map we generally just put down the towns and don't worry about the villages. At the scale BBB is played villages wouldn't have that much impact on the ability for divisions to march through a village or fight over.

Ezza

vtsaogames20 Feb 2016 8:57 a.m. PST

Ezza, I must differ with you on this. It is true, setting up these tables are a lot of work. This one is so busy it's hard to roll dice. Later today I will be assembling more Paper Terrain houses for later battles. Northern France seems to be full of villages and towns.

My center is being held by a slim brigade of Turcos. They are in the village of Elsasshausen. They get a column shift in their favor because they are all skirmishers and another because they are in a village. I think that is why they haven't been shot out of line so far. They have held the village by virtue of rolling 9 and 10 against the last two Prussian attempts to storm the place. Facing twice my number of Prussian infantry has me looking for every scrap of cover and every possible terrain delay. There are other villages that are not as important now because the Prussians have not attempted to turn my right.

If the Turcos give way there will be a gap about a foot wide in my center, with nothing behind them. If they do hold, I will add finials to their flag after the game and mark the battle under their base.

ChrisBBB2 Supporting Member of TMP20 Feb 2016 9:18 a.m. PST

BBB works in 3" increments and as a broad principle I try to represent any terrain that is 3" across or more. Given that a lot of units have only about 3" frontage, it is important to represent the terrain that can conceal or obstruct them with comparable granularity.

In making that design decision I was very influenced by an academic research paper I read years ago about simulating survivability of attack helicopters. IIRC: Previous work had represented terrain as 10m blocks, and helicopters found it hard to survive. The authors of the paper used improved computing power to represent the same terrain with increased granularity, 3m blocks. Suddenly lots more trees, bushes and folds in the ground appeared, and helicopters found it much easier to hide and to move while still concealed; and they became much less vulnerable, thus more useful and deadly.

So the point is that the granularity matters, and you do need sufficiently detailed terrain for a realistic result.

Chris
Bloody Big BATTLES!
link

KTravlos20 Feb 2016 4:17 p.m. PST

I do believe that its ok to scale or simplify the terrain, but in BBB the terrain is very intrinsic to the scenario balance. So do make simplifications but think about their impact. You might want to calibrate OOBs to make up for some loss of granularity (make Raw troops Trained, Trained Veteran, and give Veteran extra skrimishers or extra bases). Its not a straight jacket but I do prefer if the model is detailed and then we cut out as needed.

vtsaogames20 Feb 2016 9:19 p.m. PST

Ezza, I can see how it is a real problem for the Exiles. You have to get the table set up in a fairly short amount of time down in the pub basement and then pack it away when the game is finished. I don't have that problem. Even then, I'm not sure I can replicate all of the tables required and may have to pass on one or two of the Franco-Prussian battles.

There are some scenarios with much simpler terrain, like the first Crimean one between Russians and Turks. I suspect you'd have to substitute other figures.

ChrisBBB2 Supporting Member of TMP21 Feb 2016 3:03 a.m. PST

Hmm, that sounded like I was finger-wagging, didn't it – sorry, Ezza! I was just trying to justify / explain why my BBB scenarios tend to be quite terrain-intensive.

But I admit they are sometimes overly fussy. That's because I take the view that it is easier for players to leave the detail out than to add it in, so I ought to provide it. It is certainly often possible to simplify and abstract BBB maps some more without spoiling the game. I'm very happy that you've found a way to make it work for you. Thanks for sharing your good advice, and happy gaming.

Chris

ezza12321 Feb 2016 5:53 a.m. PST

As Vincent mentioned above at the Exiles club, we have a fairly short time to set up the table before starting the game. So for a BBB scenario we would try and set out the main terrain features. The bit about setting up villages was just that some of them appear on the map in areas where it is unlikely any opposing troops would clash or even march through. So we choose to omit these villages under this criteria, using the same criteria for other terrain features. However if we had enough time we probably set up all the terrain.

Chris – No, did not notice any finger-wagging! It was good to read your comments about game design. We enjoy playing BBB, and the scenarios we have tried have always resulted in a close victory for one side or the other.

Ezza

ChrisBBB2 Supporting Member of TMP21 Feb 2016 6:57 a.m. PST

Great to hear, thanks, Ezza! Yes, it's true that there are often corners of the map that aren't likely to be visited or fought over so they can be left less detailed.

Chris

Kokolores21 Feb 2016 11:13 a.m. PST

Thanks for sharing the aar. I own several 15mm armies of the period and BBB myself, but haven't tried the rules yet. So far I have been playing a lot of "1870" by Bruce Weigle and "19th Century Wargames" by Neil Thomas which are both excellent rules sets.
Next weekend Bruce W. will be coming to the Hamburg "Tactica" convention and we will be playing a massive game of the battle of Königgrätz using a light version of his "1866" rules.
link

Phil the french21 Feb 2016 11:18 a.m. PST

Great looking game, and nice explanations as well…
Best,
Phil.

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