"Starting Genpei Wars." Topic

I'm thinking of starting a project. (Is there any phrase a wargamer's wife dreads more?) I'd like to do a wargame set in the Genpei wars. I'd like this for a couple of reasons:

1. It is a bit offbeat. As rare as samurai wargames are compered to, say, WWII, most of the ones I've seen are set in the sengoku era.
2. I read "Tale of Genji," translated, for a class long ago. It is a fascinating era.
3. The Assault Group makes a very nice line of figures for the period.
4. Samurai fighting with bows from horseback is just cool.

The problem is that I don't have any idea on where to actually start. Any tips on which rules I should look at, or how to build an appropriate army?

Thanks in advance.

Gempei wars are great for skirmish level games. I've used SAGA with boards for Japanese and Mongols during the Mongol invasion as well as using a friends home brew skirmish rule set for more traditional clan fighting.

For the period, the book you need is Tale of the Heike (Heiki monogatari). I have the translation by Helen McCollough and like it. If you like extra, Tale of Hogen and Tale of Heiji are good background.

The stories remind me a lot of Vikings. Strong personalities that hold groups together, fighting in small groups not massed combat, burning down the other guys house or temples, boasting and the emphasis of being the first to battle, first to kill enemy, etc.

I have my units setup with four mounted warriors supported with a group of eight retainers. Sometimes it's fun to throw in the warrior monks, they were really just armored thugs used by the temples to push their agendas (and burn down rival temples).

SAGA is an intriguing idea, I like that.

I see "Ronin" is also a skirmish-level game, does it cover this era?

Ronin is generic enought that you could probably play it in this era, even if it is mostly geared toward Sengoku. Ronin is smaller scale than SAGA, so consider if you want 8-10 minis per side or if you are rather looking at 20-50 minis per side. Ronin is a game of individually operating members of a warband, while SAGA has units, so they are actually quite different.

How about Lion Rampant? Would that work?

Lion Rampant works fine. We've been playing it with 15mm Sengoku samurai without any modifications, just crossing over troop types into Lion Rampant classifications.

The 2012 annual NHK Taiga drama was 'Taira no Kiyomori,' being unsurprisingly about the life of Kiyomori. Should provide a bit of inspiration. I think it's next in my Taiga list to watch.

Hi Scott,

I couldn't agree more on the appeal of the Gempei Wars. It can be quite frustrating to see all the lines representing the later Age of War, but so few covering the war that in many ways started it all. I think Kurosawa might be to blame.

If you can get your hands on a copy, Eiji Yoshikawa's novel, The Heike Story is a superb read--it could only add to your zest for the period, I think.

As for figures, don't forget 1st Corps has a very nice range. I'd provide a link, but their server seems to be down.

Like the poster above, I'd think Lion Rampant would be perfect for you.

Good luck!

Lion Rampant – I must admit, I've never looked at it. Any change you could give me a brief summary of why it fits the era? I'm guessing it is skirmish level…?

Edit: I could easily be persuaded to do something on a larger scale, but it does seem like skirmishing fits the best from what I'm hearing…

Edit: And I've ordered Tale of the Heike and The Heike Story, thanks!

Lion Rampant is for around 60 figures a side. It's intended for medieval but the troop classifications are broad enough that it's easy to fit samurai into it. There are probably mods out there for samurai, but we didn't find them necessary.

There's 2 AARs on our club 'blog which has some idea of how the equivalents worked:
wargamesasp.wordpress.com/2016/01/20/spears-across-the-takahashigawa-a-lion-rampant-campaign

That sounds excellent – and your games are inspiring. Terrain-wise I'd also like to try my hand at some of 4Ground's "Samurai Japan" buildings.

I figure if I do individual bases I can always go from small (Ronin) through modified SAGA up to larger games (Lion), possibly even larger than that.

Wouldn't the Wargames Factory (Warlord Games) samurai work for this?

store.warlordgames.com/collections/feudal-japan-1467-1603

I think those are a few hundred years too late. Styles of armor and methods of fighting changed a lot in the meantime. They went from boxy armor and bows on horseback to more fitted armor and different types of troops.

Edit: West Wind's "Samurai Wars" are a bit on the fantasy side, but they might work.

link

Edit: Even better:

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Just to give you some ideas, here are my battle boards for Gempei Saga.

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I borrowed shooting and challenge abilities from other Saga boards for the Japanese and unit cooperation abilities for the Mongols. If I were to do Taira vs Minamoto fights for Gempei war, I'd give the Minamoto more hand to hand abilities since they were considered backwards but fierce warriors from the north. Taira would probably obtain the archery abilities since they were the ones that were at court in Kyoto. I'd have to find some other tweak to give them more of the I paint my face white and blacken my teeth cultured feel.

For Lion Rampant, I'd just give the Men-at-Arms bows and remove their I have to charge at anything I see characteristic. Otherwise, it should work pretty well.

Few pics of a Japanese/Mongol Saga game (plus some other random game pics from club night games).

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Check out Renaissance Miniatures for some nice Asian buildings. I got in on their East Asia kickstarter and got some nice kits.

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Yeah, Wargames Factory is far too late. I have some of The Assault Group's samurai, they are more suitable for the period.

I'd also base my troops individually if I was playing earlier periods of Samurai, and I'd probably look at SAGA or similar sized games.

Few pics of a Japanese/Mongol Saga game (plus some other random game pics from club night games).

What a fantastic looking game, thanks for posting that!

I used 25mm Old Glory for mine ….not bad for Kamakura period (not perfect but passable ) couple of Taira pics . Rules used were Impetus

Tarty, those look great. Superb work--and it's nice to see photos of the OG range!

Thanks for the photos, Paul and Tarty.

Some thoughts on Genpei era rules, sources and figures in various scales here:

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TMP link
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Also this recent thread about mixed contingent samurai rule sets brought up "A Coat Of Steel" which is relevant to the period in question.

TMP link

Old Glory Samurai are great looking, dynamic poses. The Ashigaru also blend well with Clan War and Perry, in my opinion.

Paul72, I have some Japanese boards for SAGA but where can I find the Japanese and Mongol boards that you are using?

I've been planning on gaming the Gempei wars, too, but I was going to use GW's War of the Ring mass battle rules. Still lets you have heroes in the units, with said heroes providing a significant effect on the battle, but not a mass of individual duels necessarily.