"Iraq's Kurdistan Leader Believes Now Is The Time To Push..." Topic

… For A Kurdish State.

"Iraqi Kurdistan leader Massud Barzani has declared that the "time has come" for the country's Kurds to hold a referendum on statehood, a move likely to raise tensions with Baghdad.

But even if the various political challenges to independence are resolved, the major economic problems the region faces due to low oil prices are another bar to Kurdish independence.

"The time has come and the conditions are now suitable for the people to make a decision through a referendum on their future," Mr Barzani said in a statement released Wednesday…"
Full article here
link

I think they deserve it …

Amicalement
Armand

The only dependable ally we have on the ground on that front. I've been saying for a long time that 20th century notions have to be left behind. There is no Iraqi nation left except on paper. It will be tough going and there are lots of issues that will have to be settled along the way, especially oil revenues.

I don't know if it will be a western style democracy and I anticipate that if they have their own nation that there'll be times when their own nation's interests might not be ours. It's a notion whose time has come!

The time has come for the Mitanni to rise again and overhtrow the Hittite oppressors!

I agree … the Kurds deserve their own state. But like everything coming out of that region … it's complicated …

I think an independent Iraqi Kurdistan would be in America's interest. Barzani has my support, for what that may be worth.

To support a Kurdish free state is to become an enemy of Turkey. Does the West and NATO want to alienate and antagonize Turkey? And what would the West do if Turkey simply occupied all Kurdish lands until it could "pascify" the Kurds.
A far better solution would be to sit down all the interested parties of the region in order to undo the Sykes-Picot debacle of a century ago and peacefully redraw borders to reflect the realities on the ground and local interests. That would include talking to odious groups such as ISIL and the Al-Nusra Front as well as the Assad regime and the FSA.
It would be very hard to reach an agreement but would probably provide a better chance for lasting peace than war and terrorism.
Cheers.
Rod Robertson.

It would be very hard to reach an agreement but would probably provide a better chance for lasting peace than war and terrorism.

That is why I said on another thread, in 30 years we'll still be dealing with islamic terrorism.

This is not a new "phenomenon". Its been going on for a very long time. With the fall of the USSR and a number of other occurrences. Like with the creation of Israel in '48. A direct cause and effect of Hitler's Holocaust, etc. A large vacuum of some sort was created. etc., when Cold War 1 ended … And we know what happens in nature when this happens.

History 100 years from now is going wonder why the world let a handful of islamic lunatic fringers did so much damage, etc. ?
With the power of NATO, the Russians and yes even the rest of islam, Arabs, Turks and Persians … let this horror show go on. I'm not giving the rest of the islamic world a pass. It is clear the terrorists are getting a lot of support from many places in the islamic world. May be the lunatic fringe is larger than we believe or want to believe ?

We know of all their various differences, histories, etc., … They have a lot of blame and guilt in this. And it is not just because of what the West did or didn't do to them. Decades and even centuries ago. We all know why they call the West – "Crusaders". Bottom line it does come down to a decades upon decades moslem civil war.

A lot more blood will be shed before this conflict is done. Mostly islamic … it appears …

To support a Kurdish free state is to become an enemy of Turkey.

Keep up with the news. The Turks support Barzani. If they support him all the way to independence, then Iraqi Kurdistan will be free.

The Barzani-Erdogan agreement of 2010 was a politically expedient way of getting a Kurdish mediator to work with the Turkish Kurdish nationalists and to try and get Kurdish votes in the elections of 2011, 2014 and most recently Sept. 2015. neither of these strategies worked. Also the Kurdish Autonomous region in Iraq is almost broke and is not financially viable on its own. It will need the land and resources of Syrian and Turkish Kurds (and perhaps Iranian Kurds) to become viable. This is something which Turkey will not tolerate.

Barzani and Erdogan came to a strategic understanding more than five years ago that entailed Turkey investing in and helping Iraqi Kurdistan develop an independent export route in return for Arbil facilitating a Kurdish peace process in Turkey. The arrangement was intended to sway Kurdish votes in Turkey toward the AKP, provide Turkey with a steady supply of energy, enable Turkey to be the final check on Kurdish ambitions for autonomy and provide the Kurds with a stable income without having to rely on Baghdad for the disbursement of budgetary funds. As some Turkish journalists have chronicled, the economic arrangement also allegedly allowed ample room for kickbacks for the Barzani and Erdogan patronage networks.

As we highlighted early on, this arrangement was full of holes and subject to collapse. Iraqi Kurdistan is sliding deeper and deeper into debt, and Turkey has been compelled to resume hostilities with the PKK at the cost of undermining its relationship with Arbil. It has put Barzani in an awkward position. He has an economic interest in sustaining the arrangement with Turkey, but is seen at home as a traitor to his ethnic kin for backing Turkey at the same time Turkey is bombing northern Iraq in pursuit of the PKK. Rivals to Barzani's Kurdistan Democratic Party, such as the Gorran party and the Talabani clan's Patriotic Union of Kurdistan as well as militant groups like the PKK, have openly come out against Barzani's policies and are seizing the opportunity to rein him in. So when Barzani asks Kurdish lawmakers for yet another term extension, he is not getting an affirmative response.

From:
link

The agreement between the Iraqi Kurds and the the Turks is fragile, brittle and likely to collapse in the very near future. The agreement is based on the time honoured tradition of the enemy of my enemy is my friend (for now) and is the same reason Turkey cooperates with ISIL and even Israel when it is in Turkey's interests to do so. If Turkey has to choose between Turkish territorial integrity and Kurdish Iraq, it will choose Kurdish Iraq and invade Iraq and Syria if necessary.
Cheers.
Rod Robertson.

If the Kurds keep selling oil to Turkey, they'll remain friends.

Besides, the way to "play the game" in that part of the world is to keep them both in power and then play them against each other. Only time there is peace there is when everyone smiled at each other while hiding a knife behind their backs.

Interesting article, Rod. Wish I could see the whole thing without signing up for the site, which I won't do at this time. I do see that the article dates from August 2015. Events have moved quickly since then.

It's true that the Kurdish economy is suffering, as are all the other oil-based economies, from Saudi over-production. However, by now Erdogan has successfully used his war with the PKK to solidify his power and the AKP's. If Barzsani is in fact a mafioso, he should be able to hold power by continuing to control distribution of the spoils.

And that Turkish mechanized battalion continues to sit north of Mosul, training Barzani's soldiers, in spite of all Iraqi protests. There won't be any need to give the Kurds heavy weaponry, that might later be turned against the donors, if Turkish troops provide armor and artillery muscle to support the peshmerga. My eye is on Mosul.

@zippyfusenet,
Your last comments echo what I would've said. Baghdad's protests about Turkish involvement in Iraq aren't going to make the Turks leave.

The military has said to defeat Daesh you must take Mosul and Raqqa. Do not know if the Shia Iraqi and Persians will want the help from both the Sunni Turks and Saudis. Of course based on their performance against Daesh in Iraq. It has only been marginally successful at best. Don't know is this would end up in a Turk/Saudi Sunni vs. Iraq/Persian Shia clash. Regardless, if Raqqa falls. It should impact Deash in Iraq/Mosul. If the Kurds with Turk support takes Mosul … they are not going to give it back.

The priority should be ending Daesh and AQ. But there are too many players with different end games, etc., … That is a big reason why Deash has been so successful.

I still have a feeling that Turkey is looking for the Kurds to carve out Kurdistan from Iraqi and Syrian territory. Then it will point their Kurds toward it with a "don't let the screen door hit ya where Allah split ya" shove.

Kurds are Sunni … like the Turks and Saudis. And the artificial entity known as "Iraq" is 60% Shia and their Persian ally/puppet masters are overwhelmingly Shia.

What could go wrong ?!?

History 100 years from now is going wonder why the world let a handful of islamic lunatic fringers did so much damage, etc. ?

By not realizing that it's not merely a little lunatic fringe, but a massive, well-funded operation where traditional and new media, schools, art, etc are all used to indoctrinate the masses into radical thinking in the name of a better, more pure Islam, returning to its roots and develop a very healthy pathological hatred of the West and the rival faction of Islam with the aim of destroying it in one last apocalyptic battle.

The only thing holding them back is that as of now there is no central authority guiding it, but if that ever happens …

As I said, maybe the lunatic fringe is larger than we believe or want to believe ? We know of the House(tent) of Saud's duplicity, etc., supporting the Wahhabis, etc. And it appears their neighbors Oman, UAE, etc. are turning a blind eye, or tacitly supporting, etc. as well.

Again, and they wonder why some Americans have a less than favorable opinion of moslem nations.
It seems I'd be surprise if many Americans have anything near a positive take on these countries, their leadership, military, and populous in general. If you can't/won't fight to defend yourself … what good are you ?