"70% postage rate" Topic

I need some of your advice, just bought 10 , 28mm figs from a godon's figurines maker (not giving the name for the moment). The total cost of figures is 12£ and no way to find any clue on its site of any postage rate. Then I receive a Paypal invoice asking 8,7£ for a registered postage from the other side of the channel to France (i.e less than 500Km or 300 miles) which make the postage rate as high as 70%. I asked him not to send it as registered as it is more expensive finding that the posatge rate is excruciatingly high and unlegitimate compared to other british companies. What would you do know ? Making the name of this highwayman known ? or shut my mouth and weep?

All the best from Paris

GBoue

The manufacturer has been foolish. He does not benefit from this in any way, financially. Did they get to you or did you manage to stop this?

He is not a robber, but he has been very unwise in potentially putting you to the expense you did not want. He wants to be sure you get your figures, but this is overkill….probably with the best of intentions!

Perhaps you should feed this back to him. Maybe he reads this forum?

A very interesting posting…………

There should have been some info on postage on the website but he is not in any way cheating you – the rate for a tracked and signed parcel is £8.70 GBP for a 250g parcel.

If other manufacturers charge less then they are making a loss on the deal – not to be expected under these circumstances. Larger orders may mean some leeway to reduce postage charges but hardly for just 10 figures.

Also bear in mind that, to keep within PayPal guidelines, he must send by a similar service or risk being out of pocket if the customer makes a claim of non-delivery.

I suggest that you go to the Royal Mail website to see postage rates from the UK to anywhere in the world before making unsubstantiated claims of being overcharged.

What?

Charging the exact same amount to the customer that the seller incurs?

That's an outrage!

Pretty soon seller's will be asking to make a profit and then where will we be?

I checked the Colissimo website – the French parcel service – and they would charge €12.15 EUR to send a parcel up to 0.5 kg in the opposite direction. That equates, at today's rate, to approximately £9.30 GBP so you're not doing too badly.

Yep, he's just trying to protect himself, since if you claim you never received him, or they get lost in the mail, he's out the miniatures, money to ship them, and Paypal's cut of his "sale".

Yes, OP's beef is really with the postal service. Even sending a parcel "signed for" within UK costs a minimum of £3.90 GBP. I agree that too many manufacturers do not show the likely postage costs up front- it is not too much to ask that these charges are shown before you commit to the purchase. Many do, e.g. 10% of item cost, with minimum charge of £2.00 GBP within UK.

"Making the name of this highwayman known ? or shut my mouth and weep?"

He's charging *exactly* what the postage costs, so no "highwayman"…. I'd ask if, given the small order size, he can ship by regular air mail instead. If he's not willing to, then decide whether you want them badly enough to pay the premium, or if you'd rather ask him to refund so you can go elsewhere, or simply shelve the purchase until you want more than 10 figures, making the postage costs more economical.

Registered Mail is a killer in all nations. If there is a less expensive trackable method (the USPS has several, but I don't know about other nations), I'd use it.

But Registered Mail means that I can know exactly who has it, as the person receiving it has to sign for it at each change of custody, even inside the Post Office. Pain in the ass to account for, but worth it for high-value or high-security items.

@gboue2001,
Welcome to real world postal rates!

Postal rates keep going up. Its a fact. Many buyers take no time to look at postal rates and complain when they see the prices. Sellers have to protect themselves and have items tracked. This cost more. This is what buyers and sellers now have to deal with. Get used to it. I am now charging for shipping for any item I sell in USA. Overseas is killer as I am unable to track via USPS unless I charge extra and that gets real expensive.

Thanks to all for your well advised answers, the seller eventually accepted not to post the figures as "registered"( by the way, I could use Maggies' motto" I want my money back"). The point is, as one of you has written, that the internet shop doesn't explains clearly the postage rates which could increase again if "Brexit" takes place somewhere in the future!It could be fun for you to find the name of the company who makes suche wonderful napoleonic figures.

Try living in Norway…you have to add 30% on the total after shipping costs for "tax/handling". I usually just double the price on anything I see to know what I will have to end up paying. Add that to killer currency rates and you are doing pretty well IMO.
I even have trouble not loosing money on selling my own minis to people overseas because of the high postage rates going out of my country.

I don't sell stuff from norway, simply can't with the price of shipping, i would have to sell my used unpainted figures for much more then what it would cost new from the manufacturer.

that the internet shop doesn't explains clearly the postage rates which could increase again if "Brexit" takes place somewhere in the future!

Why should postage rates increase if the UK leaves the EU? Postal rates are not affected by the single market.

Major B

I used "could" which means that it can be a possiblity, as we cannot trust the europeanity of the Brits.

That is another subject wich doens't belong to this thread and that I will be glad to discuss with you in a parisian bistrot with a good glass of Chablis

Often, internet dealers also give flat rate postage. On smaller orders, such as your own, postage will seem very high. The model is designed for you to make it worth it with big orders. Buy a lot of products and suddenly, 8.70GBP doesn't seem so bad.

The seller wrote me that 8,7£ were for less than 0,45Kg of goods registered and signed for, and that I had no choice for an non registered an non signed for, unless at my own risks.

I don't see either why I should buy a large amount of figures when I just need ten of them just to make my money profitable.

Don't you think that this way of making business could put in jeopardy all the wargaming future ? I think that some of the sellers know that we are driven by passion more than by reason and that they are taking advantage of it.

They are after the golden goose.

I don't see either why I should buy a large amount of figures when I just need ten of them

Then you'll just have to pay the minimum postage and accept the risk that they might not arrive … or go without the figures.

Don't you think that this way of making business could put in jeopardy all the wargaming future

I do not.

The seller wrote me that 8,7£ were for less than 0,45Kg of goods registered and signed for, and that I had no choice for an non registered an non signed for, unless at my own risks.

Generally, I would take the route of standard delivery as opposed to registered etc. It is a small amount of figures and a small cost. I'd take the risk.

I did took the risk and will keep you informed of the future of my command.

I am not complaining about the cost, life has been gentle enough with me not to moan for such an amount but for the principle.

So French, Isnt'it ;-)))

"Et c'est encore plus beau lorsque que c'est inutile"
"I fought for lost cause, and for fruitless quest!"
Not so good translation from Cyrano de Bergerac by Edmond Rostand

Wow, I'm surprised that you're surprised. Here in the US there's generally a minimum shipping fee. That's why I make my purchases at least $50 USD, that puts the fee pretty close to what sales tax would be (intrastate purchases in the US don't get taxed in general, though some greedy states claim they do and expect you to send the money in). Some companies charge more after you hit another marker, like $100 USD, or charge a percentage above a certain amount.

I must admit that I generally would place larger orders (hence my lead mountain) for just this reason. Postage can be as much as the figures otherwise. Once you start importing from outside the EU, import duties and the postal service handling addition can be massive.

I had not appreciated that there might be an issue with the manufacturer not getting paid. You pay up front….but could claim they never arrived. You pay on arrival….but might well not do so. The only complaint can be that it was maybe not sufficiently clear at the time of initial payment.

I have had figures arrive recently by express registered post….but knew about it in advance. I wanted them stat. They should appear this weekend on this forum………

Again. The manufacturer does not benefit financially in anyway from this expense……that is the postal system. It is the usual complaint…lack of information!

There are two underlying themes to this thread, which used to be quite common on TMP.
One is that a "hobby company" is not a normal company.
The other is that small orders are special.
so, the reasoning goes that a hobby company is somehow not a "serious" company, that normal laws of economics do not apply to them.
These non-serious companies exist to serve the needs of hobbyists and should absorb all costs. Like shipping.

In the Real World, small orders are more of a pain in the ass than a larger order. There is the expense of packaging. Identical. There is the labor in sorting, invoicing, etc. All for a tiny profit. And then the "customer" complains that the seller does not want to absorb the expenses.

A normal hobby seller is NOT an independently wealthy Lottery winner, serving the Hobby selflessly to bring joy to fellow enthusiasts. He has expenses to meet, etc.

I had thought that this attitude on TMP had died out a while back. I guess it didn't.

John the OFM, your point of vew is biased and I do not agree with the way you analyse the situation.

You are right when you write that small orders are special but does that means that small orders should be banned ? My point of view is that a lot of small orders are a kind of a test before large ones, and should be treated when i is possible as a goodwill gesture: i.e – no high postage cost (putting 10 figures in a small box is not an harassing job!)

Exactly the way, my commands ends, with half the cost of the postage rate paid back on my Paypal account by the figs maker.

He is finally a good seller, and a pleasant lad.

So, as a "goodwill gesture", you expect a seller to lose money on a small order, in the vague hope that you will order more in the future?

GBOUE2001-OFM is not biased . He is stating something you should understand concerning shipping. Maybe you should go to other websites and check the shipping or to the various Postal sites. Just a thought concerning your "principle": Sellers have to protect themselves also. What is to say he sends it w/o any tracking and you get it , then decide to say you never received it? This happens more times than you may be willing to accept. And regardless of how you want it shipped( cheaply it seems) , Paypal and eBay etc. will always side with the buyer. I for one only ship if I can track it. I am not going to lose money because of cheap buyers who are unwilling to pay reasonable shipping cost.., and yes a small order does not affect the cost as much as you seem to think.

oh, this is tricky…………

I can say that a bunch of Mamelukes from Gringos40 are the best castings I have ever seen………..but postage was expensive. I did not care………..I wanted them "yesterday"

I now have more Mamelukes than ordinary Ligne French Cavalry in my collection.

Blame von W for that….another story…

But I knew that, when I ordered them. No one will order over 100 Mamelukes…or Gendarmes de l'Elite *(OK I might for the latter…that is me). Small numbers for elite? How many Murats will you sell?

I can now understand why Gringos arrange postage at what seems expensive at first, after reading athe bove. But they will be small numbers, they are worth it for quality.

Let me guess. Gringos40? Don't be put off……and , if I am wrong…apologies.

I cannot think of anyone else you would order from in small numbers, whilst conceding that they are worth it.

No, I do not have shares, in the company, and I can spot the odd errors in their Mamelukes…..but they are incredible………best 28mm I think I have ever seen

@ gboue2001
John the OFM is actually talking sense, there is little profit in the Wargames business, especially on figures which are rather specialist. You could do what I have done when I wanted relatively small numbers of figures- get one or two friends to buy at the same time. Many of us are in clubs and other people are often interested in the same ranges. Splitting the postage two or three ways makes it much less of a hit.

Hello all,

I will not comment on Deadhead's post, but he is right, Gringo40s figures are just incredible.

For OFM and steamingdave47: I have been buying by post figures from 1977, so a long time before the Internet. What I see is a long term increase in postage rate that is gradually and artificially upgrading the cost of figures. I am not the kind of old fashionned leftist, you describe when you try to decipher my post. I fully understand the need for profit of any kind of business. I just want to point out that globalization is supposed according free trade agreements to lower price , not to increase them. A consumer is not only a "wallet to be emptied" but also an asset for a business, so a proper postage cost (packaging, handling) for small orders (i.e: not exceeding 20%) should be a good trade policy.

I hope you don't teach Economics.

Don't worry Mr.Smith, I do not have this ambition. Just giving my opinion for what it is worth, two cents of Euros. It would be better to stop this thread here as I can feel some kind of cultural disregard from some conceited forumers!Not you Mr. Smith!

I just want to point out that globalization is supposed according free trade agreements to lower price , not to increase them.

Tell that to the postal services …

I agree with MajorB!
Postal charges are a pain. I sell the odd thing on EBay and have done for about 12 years. A package that I could send for about 70 pence at that time is now a minimum of £2.80 GBP within the UK. Of course, my postal charges are displayed " up front"Sending abroad is just horrendously expensive; to send a book to my grandsons in Singapore costs over £8.00 GBP without insuring and over £13.00 GBP with.
Gboue2001 you began this thread by appearing to criticise an unnamed company for charging you the amount it cost them to send an item. That criticism was unjustified. The only grounds for criticism is if they did not show the charges properly on their website and I would urge sellers to be much clearer in the way they show postal charges.

At last steamingdave47, it seems you have read all my post, I was wondering about the postage rates and more than that about the unanmed company, which at the end agreed not to impose "registered and signed for". They should have a more easily accessible information on their site and no automatic shortways directly to Paypal when you validate your cart.
And as I told before, but only deaf and blinds are lurking around on this thread, it is all to their honour and they deserve to be praised for that.

Royal mail quote for 1 kg parcel from uk to nz value £100.00 GBP tracked and signed quoted cost £20.00 GBP manafacturer charged £30.00 GBP
quality of goods? priceless
would i do it again? Yes I well

You make it sound like the seller chose to impose signed for – it's an expectation due to Paypal's systems and practices. Many online shopping carts are set up to go to something like Paypal and their restrictions are the price we pay for the convenience of clicking a few buttons rather than picking up the phone or composing an email. You make it sound like the cart went straight to Paypal (like most do). In this case, why not just close the window and go straight to the 'contact us' page in the first place? I always see a total before I press the 'confirm' button.

I'm glad you were able to come to a resolution and it shows that proper communication can usually lead to one, but really, your entitlement in this thread is ridiculous. Never mind 'wondering about postage rates' – you called him a highwayman without any knowledge of the postal rates. You were told that was how much it would cost him and talked about him trying to kill the golden goose. (As though 10 figures is worth this drama) and you finish with 'Finally, he is a good seller.' How very good of you to say so, as though he had been in the wrong or a 'bad' seller for not losing 6-7 Euros to sell you 10 figures, which may or may not lead to further sales.

It's not only Paypal. UK Distance Selling Regulations mean that the seller is liable for the cost of replacement should a parcel not be delivered or should a fraudulent buyer claim non-delivery. It's therefore very much in the seller's interest to request a signature to prove delivery.

Why should they trust you?

Why should they remove their guarantees against fraud simply because you don't want to pay for it?

As has been said, a larger order (up to the next weight band) would not incur any more postal cost, thus reducing the percentage cost of the registered delivery.

"we cannot trust the europeanity of the Brits."

You say that like it's a bad thing… ;)

Sorry to sidestep the subject, but Deadhead: your post is priceless!!:) I do believe you may be suffering from a serious case of morbus mameluke!!

Dr J

No, my wife is. She wakes screaming (like Henry VIII on his deathbed, so the story went in a Catholic household)……."Mamelukes! Mamelukes! Mamelukes!" We were told he cried "Monks, Monks, Monks"

I now have more Mamelukes than cuirassiers

I have promised a break…I was thinking about my Perry French ambulance actually…..

If you'd taken the hint in 1415, you'd have been charged domestic rates.

Don't worry though, you're really up on the deal. 10 English figures are really worth 20 from elsewhere – 40 if they're from Ireland, Scotland or Wales.

If it's any consolation, I bought a book on ebay that I won for 1 cent.

Shipping was 4 dollars.

Globalization has benefited no one who works for a living.
The American (USPS) postal system just raised the international rates something on the order of 80% for the small packages (less than 1#/450g) which are the majority of our hobby shipments.

Miniature wargaming has been a globalized (Well, WEIRD) hobby since I started in 1977; A tad Anglophone, but anyone worth talking was supposed to learn English in School (The "E" part). OK, Longer, I had copies of Featherstone procured in the US in the late 60's.

Google Translate has a lot to answer for…