EricThe Shed | 04 Feb 2016 5:23 a.m. PST |
The first unit of calry is now painted for my ECW project..more piccies and background on the blog link
Thanks for looking |
Grelber | 04 Feb 2016 5:47 a.m. PST |
Are the two guys on the right rear rank wielding hammers? I didn't know they were still used that late. A fine looking regiment. Grelber |
Frederick | 04 Feb 2016 6:16 a.m. PST |
Nice looking unit Out of curiosity which unit flag? My ECW cuirassier regiment are Hasleridge's Lobsters – the flag I used had a mailed fist coming from Heaven although there is some controversy as to what it looked like |
GurKhan | 04 Feb 2016 6:19 a.m. PST |
Probably intended as a poll-axe, Greiber. |
davbenbak | 04 Feb 2016 7:38 a.m. PST |
Not to answer for the OP but…it seems Warlord Games uses the same box for both the TYW and ECW and war hammers are much more fitting to the TYW or even Italian Wars period of the "Shotte & Pike" era. Might have been better if they were included as an option but the riders are metal and the horses are plastic in this kit. Also, Warlord includes Waller's banner with the unit when really if these are the "London Lobsters" they should have Sir Arthur Hesilrigge's green banner with an "anchor fixed in the clouds" and motto in English "Only In Heaven" Lot of good info on bcw-project.org and their regimental wiki. As to the OP's concern about the herald or trumpeter being unarmored, they were not traditionally considered as combatants. |
Supercilius Maximus | 04 Feb 2016 10:35 a.m. PST |
There are three "cornets" identified for Haselrigg's regiment, and the details are here (thanks to Tim W. for supplying); the reference to Sir Arthur's troop is the cornet described in the post above by <<davebenbak>>:- Three identified as belonging to the regiment (they would have carried one per troop). All three are green, with green and white fringe, so it is likely that the whole lot were. Sir Arthur's you know, also Capt Walter Parry (joined rgt in ealy 44) bible with motto on scroll 'Vita et Omnia Pro Veritate'. Capt Samuel Gardiner (joined May '43) palm tree, scroll with 'Victus in AETATE Floreat MAGIS' (though a little indistinct), and Gardiner's coat of arms below – white, black chevron with 2 swords, 3 black gryphon heads. When serving with Waller's army, it is likely – though unproven – that they wore yellow sashes, or possibly green to go with the cornets (although green was considered "an unsoldierly colour"). |
Timmo uk | 04 Feb 2016 11:06 a.m. PST |
When I first saw them I thought you'd done them as Balfour's at Edgehill which was probably a cuirassier regiment early in the war before they dropped the full armour. As noted Hasslerig's (various spellings used) Lobsters used green flags which I'm sure you could probably get from GMB. IIRC Waller's personal flag was yellow with a tree on it, perhaps carried before him or by his lifeguard which may have formed a troop in his own regiment of horse. It's unlikely Hasslerigs wore the orange sashes of Essex when in the service of Waller – there was intense rivalry and perhaps dislike between them. As SM notes Waller's army probably wore yellow sashes. If you paint more horse I'd mix up the horse colours. I've only ever read one reference of a single troop of horse having matching coloured mounts. The Lobsters were destroyed at Roundway Down by the Oxford Horse. Waller formed a new regiment of London horse but they were not lobsters and it was this non armoured regiment that Hasselrig commanded against Bard's foot at Cheriton. SM, Have you got an illustrations of those flags? I have two of Hasselrigs flags painted and plain green one as I needed a third but it would be interesting to do the others. |
Mollinary | 04 Feb 2016 11:25 a.m. PST |
Interesting Timmo, as I thought the same! Reason being that the standard shown is listed as belonging to Sir William Balfour in my ECW cavalry standard bible "The English Emblem Tradition 3: Emblematic Flag Devices of the ECW 1642-1660.", and serves in my Edgehill Parliamentary army with a unit of Cuirassiers! Mollinary |
Timmo uk | 04 Feb 2016 1:41 p.m. PST |
I have Balfour's in my collection with that flag but as regular cavalry. I've actually not heard of the book you refer to – it sounds fabulous. Is it a rare historical publication or might I be able to track down a copy? |
Mollinary | 04 Feb 2016 1:51 p.m. PST |
Hi Timmo, Still available from Caliver books, but it is a hefty £89.00 GBP But it is a reference work without equal – which is why I sucked in the breath and signed the cheque. Mollinary |
Timmo uk | 04 Feb 2016 2:52 p.m. PST |
Hi Mollinary, Thanks, it does sound good, are the flags illustrated in colour? Timmo |
Mollinary | 04 Feb 2016 3:07 p.m. PST |
Sadly, no. Where images exist, they are all reproduced in outline, with colours described where known. It is a pretty detailed academic publication, but I do not think has a great potential market, hence the price. Mollinary |
Timbo W | 04 Feb 2016 3:09 p.m. PST |
Nope, its a great tome but black & white only. You'll find some nice colour illustrations of Hesilrigges' flags & others in Laurence Spring's 'Waller's Army' available from the Pike & Shot Society for £15.00 GBP currently link . Wargames Designs did a colour illustration which they kindly allowed us to post up on the BCW Wiki if you're after Hesilrigge's cornet link . de nada SuperMax :-) Nice unit of Cuirassiers by the way! Certainly the Royalist horse occasionally used poleaxes, so probably the Parls did too though I know of no definite evidence either way. Also, we might have stumbled across another parliamentarian cuirassier troop via the wiki. according to a couple of contemporary news-sheets Brereton's own troop were cuirassiers in 1643 at least, though very unlikely in my opinion the rest of his regiment would have been. link Brereton had black cornets by the way. Reminds me I really must get more flag descriptions up on the wiki……. |
EricThe Shed | 05 Feb 2016 5:55 a.m. PST |
Wow guys – thanks for some great comments and the history I used the flag straight from the Warlords box figuring they might have got it correct – clearly I need to replace this with the green & white fist. Ref the poleaxes they came with the box so got added – thought it would be different to just using swords and pistols. Learning a great deal with this project as it unfolds |
Timmo uk | 05 Feb 2016 8:11 a.m. PST |
Timbo W Thanks I have that one painted for Hasslerig it's the other two I'd love to see. I know I've painted a second Hasslerig reg. flag from reference but can't recall which one it was. Waller's army sounds like a book I really need. Cheers. Timmo |
Supercilius Maximus | 05 Feb 2016 8:40 a.m. PST |
Wow guys – thanks for some great comments and the history. I hope we didn't derail the thread for you – they are very nice figures, by the way! A drybrush with yellow over the sashes would be enough to "convert" them. I wonder if the presence of warhammers was more common in the TYW than the ECW for precisely the reason that there were more cuirassiers in the former (and because the other cavalry were also more heavily armoured)? |
Supercilius Maximus | 05 Feb 2016 8:42 a.m. PST |
SM, Have you got an illustrations of those flags? I have two of Hasselrigs flags painted and plain green one as I needed a third but it would be interesting to do the others. Timmo, No, sorry. I only had the description from Tim W – unless he has them! I would think, using the "armoured arm in the clouds" one, it would be easy enough to replicate the others. |
Timbo W | 05 Feb 2016 11:06 a.m. PST |
I think all 3 cornets are in the Index Embelematicus and certainly all 3 known of Hesilrigge's are illustrated in colour in Spring's Waller's Army. |
Supercilius Maximus | 06 Feb 2016 3:06 p.m. PST |
Ah, fair enough – didn't know that! |
colonial nic | 04 Mar 2016 3:22 a.m. PST |
Lol if you're going to go to the effort of superimposing a landscape background to your pics, you could have at least chosen one without powerlines in it! Honestly they were the first thing I noticed in the photos! |
Timbo W | 04 Mar 2016 5:59 a.m. PST |
Particularly well -equipped re-enactors perhaps? :-) |