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"Rules Questions/theory for 30YW" Topic


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Korvessa31 Jan 2016 1:38 p.m. PST

I have been playing around with adapting "War & Conquest" to Swedish-Polish wars of late 1620s and early 1630s (before death of GIIA). By way of background I really like the W&C system and am aware of their webpage & forum. I am a soloist living in the wilderness and happily play the system unaltered for my ancients and dark ages armies. I have found their web page quite helpful for those areas (So this is by no means a complaint). However, in spite of the beautifully done tome on the 30YW, there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in this particular period, so I thought I would try my questions here.
At present, I have two armies: Swedes & Poles. The first was basically designed on what I thought would be fun to paint, whereas the Poles are based on figs I had on hand (mostly from a Kislev WFB army I use against my 14 year old) – so I don't know how balanced they are. So far I have only done one game.
The Swedes have 5 cavalry units, each of 12 figs. They are a veteran Finnish unit (though not Finnish, I am a closet Finnophile), a veteran Swedish unit, a regular Swedish unit, German Cuirassier unit & a German Harquebusier unit. For the Infantry, I chose three units to represent the whole. So I have one elite unit (8 heavy pike, 16 shot) representing national infantry and better mercenaries, a German unit (12 heavy pike, 14 shot) representing average units and a newly raised Scotts unit (8 pike, 16 shot). Finally, I have one battalion gun and two units of six commanded shot.
The Poles are cavalry heavy. They consist of two units of winged hussars (12 & 10), one unit of heavy cavalry/lesser quality hussars (12), one unit of armored Cossacks ("pancerni" – 12), Polish Cossacks (8), Lithuanian Tartars (8), two units of levy Cossacks (8 ea.) and two units of arquebussiers (24 ea.)
In the first battle the Swedes had their national cavalry on their right, the infantry in the center – with the Scotts in the second rank, and the Germans on the left. The Poles had the Pancerni, lessor hussars & levy Cossacks on their left (facing the Swedish right), the infantry in the Center and the better Hussars, Cossacks and Tartars on the right.
It ended up being essentially a remash of Brietenfield. The Poles defeated the Swedish left, but were stopped by the Scotts who turned to face and seal off the threat to the flank. The Swedish right (in a tougher fight) defeated the Polish left and turned the flank of the Polish Center. In the center, Swedish firepower was more effective than the Poles.
I guess in the end it was a fairly reasonable result. Nothing the Swedes had could stand up to the charge of the Winged Hussars. On the other hand, The Swedes were able to (just) defeat the lesser Polish cavalry – but it took the intervention of GIIA (who was wounded) and commanded shot to turn the tide. Finally, in the infantry center, Swedish firepower was much more effective than the Poles.
To finally get to the point, here are some of the rules I was hoping to get some comments on:
CARACOLE: As I understand it, this was really a dead tactic at his point. Further, I suspect it was suicide to do this against the front of an enemy regular cavalry formation. Therefore, I decided to allow a countercharge reaction if done to the front of an enemy regular cavalry formation. Further, I decided to only allow this as an offensive move (the rules allow shooting in two ranks when using Caracole, but don't otherwise give limitations) – so it is not allowed as a charge reaction (stand and shoot is – but you only get 1st rank)
PISTOLS: Having these be armor piercing (AP) at range seems a bit too powerful to me. I also think they should be allowed to be used as part of a charge. So what I did was disallow the AP if shot at range, but if used in conjunction with swords to give an AP1 for the first round of a melee. The idea is to simulate the first rank firing pistols just before impact – which is how I understand Swedish cavalry tactics of the time.
MUSKETS: It seems to me a close range musket should have same AP as a two handed sword, but at the same time discourage long range musketry duels. So what I did is give them AP2 for short range and AP1 for long. I also thought the Swedes should be able to fire in two ranks if they don't move, an attempt to model their "salvo" tactics.
MOUNTED ARQUEBUSSIERS: May shoot in two ranks, but counts as moving (even if you don't) an attempt at simulating skirmishing. In spite of Hollywood, I don't think a moving horse is a particularly stable shooting platform.
HEAVY CAVALRY: The rule allows for a +2 rank bonus if charged at short range, or a +1 if charged at max charge range. By calling it a "rank bonus" instead of a "charge bonus" the rules seem to imply that the +1 applies in subsequent rounds as well (only +2 refers to charging requirement) – that is how I interpreted it anyway.
COMMANDED SHOT: I had small shot detachments (6 figs) with the cavalry. I gave them ability to protect nearby cavalry by shooting enemy during charge or counter charge if they started far enough away (as if they were target). Any casualties did not count towards battle resolution – but could cause disorder, etc. They shared the fate of cavalry they were supporting, even if not themselves engaged. For example, if the friendly cavalry routed, so did they.
PIKE & SHOT: This is the part that gives me the greatest trouble. My infantry units are formed with a central pike section and sleeves of shot on each side. I allow the shot sleeves to have independent targets if they wanted. I randomized enemy shooting hits depending on rough pike percentage (usually DR1-2 hits pike, 3-6 hits shot or similar) – unless it was obvious (like shooting a flank).
But I am not sure how to work them as a target for enemy charges. I don't think cavalry charging infantry head on was a major tactic of the day – though it wouldn't surprise me if Polish Hussars did it. The pikes must have protected the shot somehow – that was why they were there. So I don't see allowing cav to just attack the shot for example (unless flanking). How do others represent this?
All helpful thoughts comments welcome.

Korvessa31 Jan 2016 1:42 p.m. PST

Some pics of my Swedes:
[URL=http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/korvessa/media/Swed%20cav_2.jpg.html]

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[URL=http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/korvessa/media/Merc%20Horse_1.jpg.html]
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[URL=http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/korvessa/media/Merc%20foot.jpg.html]
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GamesPoet Supporting Member of TMP01 Feb 2016 9:04 p.m. PST

It has been said that the shot would retreat inside the pike block if attacked by cavalry. So perhaps placing the shot behind them as the cavalry attacks is one way, yet at the same time I can't imagine that the cav are going to be able to do much versus a wall of pikes.

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