"1812? Challenge" Topic

OK, it's a stupid question but try and have fun with it.

It's March 1812 and you are Napoleon.

You nappies all know the situation.

There is a lingering quagmire in Spain.
Most of Europe is at your feet, sort of.
The British remain implacable and invulnerable.
The Continental system is an obvious abject failure.

Your fairy Godmother appears and shows you in a crystal ball what will happen if you invade Russia and shows you the annihilation of the Grand Armee, and the subsequent fall of your empire and you winding up eventually on St. Helena.

With the words "Find another way" she departs, taking the crystal ball and leaving the Napoleon.

What is he other way you come up with.

Join a monastic order?

I'm Napoleon. I order Fouché to hunt down my Fairy Godmother and have her charged with treason. I have her sent into exile for spreading dissent and questioning my genius. I then do everything exactly the same. And blame all those around me when it doesn't work.

Good answer. That sounds just like Napoleon.

Undoubtedly he'd put the cork back in the bottle of Chambertin he was drinking & concentrate on his real problems.

"Engineer" a (fake?) serious illness for brother Joseph and abandon Spain by doing a deal with the captive King. He was such a useless clown that he would accept like a shot and would spend his time back on the throne seeking to subdue the various Juntas. The considerable anti-English feeling in Spain would result in Wellesley retiring to Portugal which Napoleon would leave well alone.

He would have to face the thorny issue of which of his two most invereterate opponents to complpetely dismember. He should have done it to Prussia in 1807 or to Austria in 1809. If the latter he could stike them before Russian armies could help them, grant the Hungarians their "freedom", set a favourite Marshall or relative up as King of Bohemia and thus reduce Austria to its 20th Century rump. If the former he could get closer to his father-in-law by destroying Prussia, giving Silesia back to Austria (a poisoned chalice, obviously), expand Poland further into East Prussia and thus reduce Prussia to a tiny state in North Germany. This doesn't solve the problem of growing German nationalism, of course nor the emnity of both Russia and Britain. The former would have to be fought, but in a defensive campaign in Poland which he would surely win. The latter might be tempted to peace with a repeal of the Continental system but, if not, the redirection of resources to the building of a fleet over the next five years and the continued losses due to French and Yankee commerce raiders might force them to the negotiating table. With Prussia dismembered he might even be willing to return Hanover to King George.

@1ngram

I've got to say, that sounds like a pretty good plan to me.

Find the spring of eternal life, and wait for the invention of the ICBM

Spain. After all that time the Brits were still not really making headway, so find a solution.

Then concentrate on reestablishing relationships with Austria and Prussia.

Dear List

It's Napoleon's own continental system that's the problem.

That's the crux. The continental system. Napoleon's shoving around kingdoms and high politics affected only kings and rulers, but the continental system, by denying people the things they needed and wanted to make their lives bearable turned EVERYONE against him. It caused him to go into Spain and it caused him to go into Russia. It did him no good and in fact he himself found it impossible to run France with it. He even broke it, trading with England when he needed things.

The answer to me is.

1. Next morning after Godmum leaves completely end the continental system and allow anyone to trade with whomever they wish.

2. Pull back everything out of Spain and simply let the Spanish squabble among themselves in delightful blithering incompetence and pig-ignorance. it will turn into a whopping problem for England who now will have to manage the country. Don't even bother to sign a peace treaty. Just do no war and guard the Pyrennes and beat anything that tries to come over it, and be done with it.

3. You are now married to an Austrian Archduchess and have a son. this is something the Hapsburgs understand. You are playing the dynastic game now, NOT the great liberator of Europe! By the way, you realize you HAVE just validated the diplomatic revolution embraced in the marriage of the last king with an Austrian Archduchess too! So you are now more mortgaged to the dynastic game than the revolutionary leader. Give Pappa in law a free hand in the Balkans and Germany. Reconstitute the Holy Roman Empire if he wishes.

4. You will never be friends with Russia as long as you sponsor the Grand Duchy of Warsaw. Toss Poland to the Wolves by giving the "protectorship" of the Grand Duchy to Prussia. Also, give back everything to Prussia and more. The Prussian King is a weak, feckless monarch, and will be easily bribed by the restored glory and new access and will become the implacable foe of Alexander as long as he has Poland. He's too stupid to allow it to be partitioned and even if he did, the Russians would want far more which he could never appease. Let Frederick William be the lady riding the tiger for a while. Austria has no love for Russia either and she will wind up supporting Prussia against Russia. Oh my, what a lovely war THAT will make!

5. Let what is left of the German Holy Roman Empire be settled by Austria and Prussia be settled by a joint congress along with the major german princes. That should keep them feuding for a century.

6. Scrap the fleet. It's been perfectly useless since Quiberon Bay, no wait. since Beachy Head a century before, and been nothing but a huge expense. It neither can protect your commerce or make a credible threat against the Royal Navy, even when the Spanish help. You have no colonial empire and the British will look at you askance as long as you have it. It's as useless as t**s on a bull. Let the British make everyone else mad by searching their ships. Take all those 32 and 42 lbders and put them in the siege train.

6. Keep the natural frontiers and the low counties and sit tight for decades, saving your money, demobilizing your huge armies, plowing the money back into your own economy and playing the role of loving paterfamilias and giving Europe peace. Enjoy your new wife, your kid, and give your relatives positions in the civil service. They won't be able to screw that up too badly. Eventually you can outlast the English and once they get used to you, all will be well.

7. And the army? Keep the best, furlough the rest, and when the Austrians and Prussians get in trouble against the Russians, send it off to help. Fight in Poland with the Prussian and Austrians AGAINST the Russians. Eventually the Prussians and Austrians will see the enormous danger of Russia to them (especially as they try and keep their posesions) It has been the policy of Russia since Peter the Great to intrude and dominate central Europe.

What your dynasty needs is TIME! Time to acquire legitimacy, time to let France heal, time to let people breathe a little, time to allow them to have lives again rather than drifting from crisis to crisis every two years. Time for Britain to get used to you.

And… if you can.

Burn Paris to the ground and massacre everyone in it. They will always hate you because you killed the mobs fun when you gunned them down with the whiff of grapeshot. Now they have nothing to do on Saturday night.

I think that 1ngram certainly has the right idea – return Ferdinand VII to the Spanish throne (he was venal, cowardly and shamelessly self-seeking so as noted controlling him would be no big deal), let Spain sort itself out, give Joseph a duchy somewhere in Germany to play with

Then he can return to the main sequence – given that he was married to a Hapsburg, carve Prussia like a turkey – give Austria-Hungary the poisoned gift of Silesia, create a Kingdom of Poland and make his loyal soldier Prince Poniatowski the King (earning Poland's eternal gratitude and creating a nice solid buffer against the Russians) and work with the Hapsburgs into expanding the power and scope of the two Empires (of course, with France's interests first)

That gives him time to develop a fleet – and have a conversation with the British about perhaps now being the time to return their rebellious colonies (who had, after all, declared war on the Brits) into the fold

Ally with America in the war against Britain, reclaiming French-Canada.

But any independent Polan would mean war with russia.

Interesting the what if situation. It seems incredible that he thought he could invade Russia whilst fighting a war in Spain.

The continental system is the major problem. It would need to go.

Get Talleyrand back and redo the treat with Austria giving them some areas back, draw them further into your camp.

Liberate (!?) South Eastern Europe from the Ottomans.

Prussia hates you and seems little point appeasing them.

Get out of Spain. What a mess. Appoint Joseph as president of the senate or something to cheer him up.

OR….. go to Spain and sort that mess out first instead of invading Russia….

The only thing the French can control is the continental system, their fleet, and Spain. They can be made better in an instant. The other powers of Europe you have to cajole and get them to go along with you. You can't control that. It takes time. You can influence that, you can get them over time to mellow, but that takes time, and that means you can't do it in a year. It also does no good to talk of partitioning, and demoting and breaking up states. That's not going to like you and you will only make folk heroes of the kings you humiliate that way. You have to keep your enemies at bay by playing on their animosities and differences. That is, dividing them against each other rather than uniting them against you. The Gran duchy of Warsaw is excellent for this. Prussia, Russia, and Austria all want it. Give it to Prussia, the weakest of the three and let them try and hold on to it. Whoever has it is the immediate and lifelong enemy of Russia, and if Russia gets it, the neighbors will be the immediate and lifelong enemy of Russia.

I would talk to Russia grant them certain exemptions from the Continental system but flatter the czar by asking his advise on how to end the system and have pace with Britain.
In the meantime talk to Turkey offer money and support to modernize there army pretext the Persians but whispering in there ear about the southern states of Russia could be there's, fill the garrisons of Europe with extra troops but stay back from the Russian Border. In the meantime launch 2 3 hundred thousand troops into the peninsular crush the Spanish and the British be there my self to stop the petty bickering of the marshals. Ally with America against British interests, once Spain has been crushed re build it showing the people a less subjugated life at that point rest help strengthen the dynasty, more kids( always fun) but with alliances marriages etc.